Thoughts on approaching cyano bloom
- Thread starter IOnceWasLegend
- Start date
Do you not use red at all? My understanding is it's for coloration. But also it can grow algae.... Sooo...
Kremis
Guest
In my soft coral cube the nutrients are very high and cyano comes every 2 months or so. I just chemiclean when it shows up because id rather do that than deal w the nutrients lol. Works perfectly every time and have never had it kill anything. May be a lazy reefer but the soft corals and shrooms in that tank love it
Coral reefer
Past President
I’m still using AI sol blues that came out in 2011...only 3 colors.
For clients I never run reds above 1-2% and greens always less than 10. I don’t like the way the greens look mostly.
dochou
Supporting Member
I totally agree with this. If you have red or green on, then switch them off.
ofzakaria
Guest
I run the same spectrum he is running. The same profile. Why you think I do not have cyano?
I always had a red component in my spectrum mix.
WWC AB+ profile also have a red component in it.
Do not mistake the red component in a spectrum mix with having red as a spectrum by itself.
dochou
Supporting Member
Well it's probably a combination of things that he has cyano and you don't. One big thing is that he has a young tank and you have a mature tank. Red and green lights are not the only factors that cause cyano. I doubt anyone knows for sure what the cause of a cyano outbreak is. That's why there are so many differing opinions on how to handle it. What works for one person will not necessarily work for the next person.
I know Chemiclean worked well for my softy and lps tank at work; I used it once and it never came back. I didn't need to change anything. BUT it created a tank crash for my main tank at home and it basically killed all my Sps (part of the reason was my fault bc i didn't do water change soon enough) So Chemiclean does work well if you follow directions and don't use it with SPS.
I don't think red and green CAUSE cyano. All the nutrient issues discussed here are still valid for eliminating cyano. I just anecdotally feel like with lower red and green the cyano wasn't as bad. It may help to weaken it to get it under control/eliminated.
ofzakaria
Guest
Doc,just because there are many opinions in such hobby that is influenced and almost plagued by "self proclaimed experts on forums" it dosnot mean it's not understood. You can read about red tide that is plaguing florida shores, these are type of cyano as well. You can also read how biologist are treating it at a large scale..
Cyano is bacteria, just like any other bacteria give it the right condition, less competition and it will thrive.
I have cyano every jow and then and almost within a week I can cure it cause with me it thrive when my po4 tank or my carbon import get high tank or when my bio diversity weakens.
Chemie clean do not hurt coral per say, it target bacteria and kill cyano and other bacteria the same. So when it does so. If its sever enough it impact your biol filtration and creat imbalance. Sps is more sensitive than lps, so pls can survive this imbalance (some times referred to as mini cycle). Or sometimes if the cyano is thick in population, a quick die off can be toxic and such resisting impact sensitive coral like sps.
I have used chemie clean and I am sps domimat, what i do after using it, is dose bacteria(I run bacteria adding system which is zeovit) and overcome the impact of the chemichal. Inalso used to first siphon the cyano to reduce how much will die from the chemichal and avoid the toxicity issue while treating.
Reason why I do not recommend it is because its temporary unless u treat the condition that is giving edge to the cyano.
Hopw that helped.
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ofzakaria
Guest
Red is good for algae not bacteria, it will not help or hurt cyano. High red component can cause algae bloom. That's all. Algae bloom can tank nutrients and compete with your bio diversity especially nitrogen availability which can help cyano since it can still intake nitrogen from the atmosphere..
That is why fug lights are heavy on the red spectrum cause it's good for algae and plants
dochou
Supporting Member
I agree. Also I've seen a difference in my own tank when I ran red/green on one light and none on the other light. The side with the red/green has more cyano growth.
I believe cyanobacteria is at least partially photosynthetic, which is why a blackout is a recommended treatment. If I remember correctly cyano has chlorophyll A which uses red spectrum (also blue) which is the same as plants (think red/blue led grow lights)
I Agree that true bacteria like we grow and multiply while cycling a tank don't react to red (or any light really) which is why you can cycle without lights on.
ofzakaria
Guest
Cyano is indeed photosynthetic.
dochou
Supporting Member
It may be better understood in the ocean but our water boxes are artificial environments that don't match the oceans. We are just trying to create an environment as similar as possible to the real ocean. So everything learned from the red tide are not absolutely applicable to our systems.
Cyano bacteria is not a typical bacteria. It and it can photosynthesize.
"Oxygenic photosynthetic bacteria perform photosynthesis in a similar manner to plants. They contain light-harvesting pigments, absorb carbon dioxide, and release oxygen. Cyanobacteria or Cyanophyta are the only form of oxygenic photosynthetic bacteria known to date." See https://photosynthesiseducation.com.
Also I don't think we know what the ingredients are for Chemiclean. It probably has some antibiotics but we don't know which one. So you don't know which bacteria it will kill. It might be that it only kills the bacteria we don't want. All antibiotics don't do the same thing and they generally have different mechanisms of actions.
I still maintain that many experts don't know how to deal with it in our tanks. Just because you found a method that works for you, it's not necessarily going to work for others.
Yuliya Ivanova is an "expert" and author who contradicts some of your advise. See her article https://reefhacks.com/how-to-get-rid-of-cyanobacteria/
Also Randy Holmes Farley's opinion: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...bacteria-in-addtion-to-cyano-bacteria.235076/ He says he thinks there is erythromycin in Chemiclean but he really doesn't know. Then Yulia says there is no erythromycin in it. Also How do you know erythromycin will kill all your "good bacteria"?
Also I've only used Chemiclean in my small softy/lps tank once, and never needed it again. So why didn't cyano grow back. I didn't change anything with the tank.
I believe every tank is different and has different bacterial balance and different chemical balance. Thus one solution for one person is not the secret recipe that everyone should follow.
If it were so simple no one would have outbreaks.
a
Out of curiosity, how intense were your greens/reds on the one tank versus the other?
ofzakaria
Guest
Agreed, to be clear I did not find a method. I found a trigger in my system. And as I said the treatment is effective when identify the triggers of cyano(nutrients, silica, weak bio filtration, low o2...etc). As an example the zero po4 data in the op post is a lead..It may be better understood in the ocean but our water boxes are artificial environments that don't match the oceans. We are just trying to create an environment as similar as possible to the real ocean. So everything learned from the red tide are not absolutely applicable to our systems.
Cyano bacteria is not a typical bacteria. It and it can photosynthesize.
"Oxygenic photosynthetic bacteria perform photosynthesis in a similar manner to plants. They contain light-harvesting pigments, absorb carbon dioxide, and release oxygen. Cyanobacteria or Cyanophyta are the only form of oxygenic photosynthetic bacteria known to date." See https://photosynthesiseducation.com.
Also I don't think we know what the ingredients are for Chemiclean. It probably has some antibiotics but we don't know which one. So you don't know which bacteria it will kill. It might be that it only kills the bacteria we don't want. All antibiotics don't do the same thing and they generally have different mechanisms of actions.
I still maintain that many experts don't know how to deal with it in our tanks. Just because you found a method that works for you, it's not necessarily going to work for others.
Yuliya Ivanova is an "expert" and author who contradicts some of your advise. See her article https://reefhacks.com/how-to-get-rid-of-cyanobacteria/
Also Randy Holmes Farley's opinion: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...bacteria-in-addtion-to-cyano-bacteria.235076/ He says he thinks there is erythromycin in Chemiclean but he really doesn't know. Then Yulia says there is no erythromycin in it. Also How do you know erythromycin will kill all your "good bacteria"?
Also I've only used Chemiclean in my small softy/lps tank once, and never needed it again. So why didn't cyano grow back. I didn't change anything with the tank.
I believe every tank is different and has different bacterial balance and different chemical balance. Thus one solution for one person is not the secret recipe that everyone should follow.
If it were so simple no one would have outbreaks.
a
Btw my personal openion about randy Holmes, while he is amazing, he has some outdated views that he did not change or researched recently, so I take some of his views with a grain of salt. I have seen him lately speculate with opinions rather than provide data or research. Again I respect the guy whole lot, but he speculate on forums. The link u posted u see he start by saying I think..
Agreed on the spirit of your talk above and ittirate again, I am not saying my method is the only way, its given based on the data provided by the op.
At the same time I do not agree that there are many methods because cyano is mysterious, I believe there are diffrent solutions because there are diffrent triggers and the solution will always be the same if it addresses what is fueling the cyano, which to your point it can be diffrent from tank to tank. Needless to say, my experience are personal hands on with my own systems and some readings here and there, so you should also take it with a grain of salt lol
Cheers doc.
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This is purely anecdotal, so take it as such.
I was having a pretty bad Cyano bloom. To the point where it was starting to get to the rocks, and I was scraping a film of it off my glass every few days.. Turned my green and red light channels off completely (they were at 10% each) and within a week I'm down to just some brown algae. Cyano still grows overnight in my fuge (heavy red grow light)
I didn't change anything with my feeding or do any extra water changes from normal.
Now, this isn't to say that my nutrients are under control, but it might be a way to get the upper hand on cyano.
My guess is when tanks aren't filled out with coral, the red and green (maybe just red?) lights just target feed cyano. I suspect once my corals grow out more they will be more able to out compete the cyano for the nutrients and I will be able to bring the red and green back some (supposedly this helps in coloration)
I was having a pretty bad Cyano bloom. To the point where it was starting to get to the rocks, and I was scraping a film of it off my glass every few days.. Turned my green and red light channels off completely (they were at 10% each) and within a week I'm down to just some brown algae. Cyano still grows overnight in my fuge (heavy red grow light)
I didn't change anything with my feeding or do any extra water changes from normal.
Now, this isn't to say that my nutrients are under control, but it might be a way to get the upper hand on cyano.
My guess is when tanks aren't filled out with coral, the red and green (maybe just red?) lights just target feed cyano. I suspect once my corals grow out more they will be more able to out compete the cyano for the nutrients and I will be able to bring the red and green back some (supposedly this helps in coloration)
Yeah; unfortunately my cyano turned out to be dinos. On the bright side, they've been eradicated and I'd put money on higher phosphates being one of the contributing factors.