Jestersix

Unhappy torch

What’s your guess on actual water volume? Taking in account for sand. Rock. Skimmer. Pumps. I was trying to figure out mine.


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jorahx4 said:
What’s your guess on actual water volume? Taking in account for sand. Rock. Skimmer. Pumps. I was trying to figure out mine.


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I used an online water volume calculator that accounts for displacement and estimate it to be 16gallons.


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The space isn't the issue with leathers since the chemical warfare occurs anywhere there is water. Torches and torches do fine with each other, but not so much with other Euphyllias.

Leathers and other leathers/Sarcophytons doesn't seem to have any effects on each other when placed nearby or next to each other.

I would always consider running carbon passively in a bag in any tank that houses leather. No need to be aggressive with stripping the column with the carbon in a reactor, unless you're running below recommended.
 
Fish Boss said:
I try to get at least a solid 3 inches of open space between my leathers and all other corals, more if possible
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My leather coral is plenty far from the torch so contact is not the issue. The suspicion is leather corals can detect other corals and leach out some sort of chemical warfare into the water, though I can’t be certain that this is what’s affecting the torch.


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Last edited:
Ibn said:
The space isn't the issue with leathers since the chemical warfare occurs anywhere there is water. Torches and torches do fine with each other, but not so much with other Euphyllias.

Leathers and other leathers/Sarcophytons doesn't seem to have any effects on each other when placed nearby or next to each other.

I would always consider running carbon passively in a bag in any tank that houses leather. No need to be aggressive with stripping the column with the carbon in a reactor, unless you're running below recommended.
Click to expand...

Prior to this issue, I’ve only conservatively run one nano bag of chemi pure blue (rated for 5gallons). Since that is below recommended, I decided to be aggressive and run a 1/4cup of GAC in a mini-max reactor in the hopes that it will save the torch. Is there a potential negative impact in being too aggressive with carbon?


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I’ve always thought corals could detect other corals that were close, and at that point they would release toxins, thus my reasoning for space with leathers. Maybe leathers can “smell” other corals in the tank, so distance doesn’t matter?
 
Fish Boss said:
I’ve always thought corals could detect other corals that were close, and at that point they would release toxins, thus my reasoning for space with leathers. Maybe leathers can “smell” other corals in the tank, so distance doesn’t matter?
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My guess is distance matters little, considering the amount of flow in a reef tank.


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ESV looks like it's butinumous carbon so your 1/4 cup is about right on for a 20G tank, but I think that's if you're running it passively versus through a reactor. BRS mentioned that running carbon in a reactor is something along the lines of being 10x more effective than in a bag.

I used to use ROX 0.8 carbon at 2 tbsp for the 47G tank and it was too much. Colors in my LPS, including frogspawn were very dull/washed out. After removing it all together, I haven't had any issues with any of the LPS, but I also didn't keep leathers.

Being too aggressive with carbon strips the water of copper and other trace elements in the water, some of which might/could be required. Also, it was noted that tumbling action causes abrasion and the release of micro particles. Carbon dust particles was affirmed as one of the causes of HLLE in a study.

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/activated-carbon-affirmed-as-causative-agent-for-hlle-disease
 
I don't think anyone really knows the exact details on coral chemical warfare.
But there are certainly plenty of reports of different softies not getting along.

My suggestion: Push it hard for a week.
Run that 1/4 cup in the reactor.
Do small 1/2 G water changes daily. So no issues stripping elements.
See if that torch is happier.

Longer term, that is a lot of carbon for a reactor in a 20G.
Research online. I am sure there are articles about correct carbon use.
 
Ibn said:
ESV looks like it's butinumous carbon so your 1/4 cup is about right on for a 20G tank, but I think that's if you're running it passively versus through a reactor. BRS mentioned that running carbon in a reactor is something along the lines of being 10x more effective than in a bag.

I used to use ROX 0.8 carbon at 2 tbsp for the 47G tank and it was too much. Colors in my LPS, including frogspawn were very dull/washed out. After removing it all together, I haven't had any issues with any of the LPS, but I also didn't keep leathers.

Being too aggressive with carbon strips the water of copper and other trace elements in the water, some of which might/could be required. Also, it was noted that tumbling action causes abrasion and the release of micro particles. Carbon dust particles was affirmed as one of the causes of HLLE in a study.

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/activated-carbon-affirmed-as-causative-agent-for-hlle-disease
Click to expand...
Good info, thanks. Guess I'll keep a lookout for dullness in my corals and remove the reactor if necessary. So you removed the leathers to save the rest of your corals? I do like the torch but I'm leaning on saving the leather and removing the torch since all other corals seem to have no issue with it. Also the leather is currently one of the main features of my tank. Too bad I can't keep both.

Carbon dust isn't a problem for me as I packed the carbon tight with the provided sponges to prevent tumbling.
 
rygh said:
I don't think anyone really knows the exact details on coral chemical warfare.
But there are certainly plenty of reports of different softies not getting along.

My suggestion: Push it hard for a week.
Run that 1/4 cup in the reactor.
Do small 1/2 G water changes daily. So no issues stripping elements.
See if that torch is happier.

Longer term, that is a lot of carbon for a reactor in a 20G.
Research online. I am sure there are articles about correct carbon use.
Click to expand...
Will do. Thanks. Hope I can save it.
 
hmmmm I didn't read the whole thread, but when my lps look bad - I check salinity of the water. usually meant I was low on top off.
 
I would also add that my torches go through a daily cycle where they are fully extended and then retract towards the evening. It’s not always a sign up for something being off if they do have periods of being extended at some point.


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Apon said:
hmmmm I didn't read the whole thread, but when my lps look bad - I check salinity of the water. usually meant I was low on top off.
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Yup, first thing I checked. Holding steady at 1.026SG. None of the params seem to be the issue.


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Gablami said:
I would also add that my torches go through a daily cycle where they are fully extended and then retract towards the evening. It’s not always a sign up for something being off if they do have periods of being extended at some point.


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Unfortunately if you look at the pictures, it’s been shriveled and receded for 4 days straight.... both day and night. I agree retraction is normal at night as I’ve seen this in the first 2 weeks. However this is more extreme. Heads are flopped down and deflated, with no change during daytime. It’s in trouble for sure.


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Ok sorry. I did look at the pictures and saw that a pic with the torch extended, and then less extended, and then retracted, which is all in a normal day for my torches. But if it’s 4 days straight they’re probably pissed off about something. Though you mention that the tentacles are out but deflated. If not retracted then that’s a good thing.


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