got ethical husbandry?

very low nitrates and phospahtes

jamie

jamie

Supporting Member
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so i had a hair algae out break a few months ago. manual removal and brushing it off worked. theres a few tuff's here and there. i was going through that for 3 months or so. i would test weekly and would get 0 nitrates and 0 phospahtes. figured that the GHA was consuming it all. been about a month since i cleared it out. now that its gone im still reading 0 on both. getting a bit worried. i have a 525 with 11 fish. most being on the smaller side cept for the fox face and hippo. i feed quite a bit now. @derek_SR said my fish were on the skinny side. 2x4 inch sheets of nori 4 times a day. pellets and frozen 4-6 times a day. also using reef chili. at twice the recommended starting dose. the sps i got from @derek_SR a couple months ago have grown on to the rock work. they seem like there doing pretty good. but my gut says they should be doing better. i test about every other day. i took my reefmatt off line last night. going to test again tomorrow. i ordered an automatic feeder. will be here next week. skimmer has been off the past month as well. any ideas?
 
If your corals are happy…good polyp extension on the sps and the lps are phat and fleshy
Then you tank is happy
Don’t chase numbers
Feed your fish and corals
Do regular water changes (large enough to matter)
Read your tank, not a screen

I would question either the tests or your method of performing the test
Or both
 
Kensington Reefer said:
If your corals are happy…good polyp extension on the sps and the lps are phat and fleshy
Then you tank is happy
Don’t chase numbers
Feed your fish and corals
Do regular water changes (large enough to matter)
Read your tank, not a screen

I would question either the tests or your method of performing the test
Or both
Click to expand...
the tank need some phospates and nitrate.
i took a water sample to AC. they got the same numbers i did. going to send out an icp test tomorrow. i change 15 gallons a week
 
More pellets, more frozen, until you get some numbers closer.

Agree to try testing with another kit and see if you get similar results.

But yeah, if corals and fish are happy, just keep doing what you are doing
 
I just slapped a rudimentary autofeeder on my tank to toss a couple pellets in during the day because my fishes aren't sufficiently fat
 
H2OPlayar said:
More pellets, more frozen, until you get some numbers closer.

Agree to try testing with another kit and see if you get similar results.

But yeah, if corals and fish are happy, just keep doing what you are doing
Click to expand...
Do this but increase slowly. How long has your tank been setup?
 
H2OPlayar said:
Not questioning, but do you have an article on this? I am interested to learn more here.
Click to expand...

"Uptake kinetics of corals exposed to enriched seawater have led to the conclusion that ammonium is preferentially taken up over nitrate (D'Elia & Webb1977, Wilkerson & Trench 1986)"
https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/68/m068p065.pdf

"....ammonium (NH4+) enrichment tends to benefit coral health....NH4+ enrichment was able to amend the deleterious effects of thermal stress by favoring the oxidative status and energy metabolism of the coral holobiont"
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-68916-0

"Among the different dissolved nutrients, ammonium is the preferred source of nitrogen for symbiotic corals (Figure 1a) (Grover et al., 2002, 2008)."

A single-cell view of ammonium assimilation in coral–dinoflagellate symbiosis - PMC

Assimilation of inorganic nitrogen from nutrient-poor tropical seas is an essential challenge for the endosymbiosis between reef-building corals and dinoflagellates. Despite the clear evidence that reef-building corals can use ammonium as inorganic ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There's also a ton of podcasts that cover ammonia dosing with positive effects from well known reefers. Here's a RB article that mentions a study (though doesn't link to it):

"The simplest way to increase nitrate and phosphate in the reef aquarium is to add more fish, and feed them more. Corals and their algae can also uptake ammonia from those fish directly." https://reefbuilders.com/2023/08/24/study-reveals-how-corals-gain-n-and-p-in-darwins-paradox/


Although...I'm not sure any of these scientists have hobby reef tanks themselves so maybe we shouldn't be listening to them @Alexander1312 :p
 
derek_SR said:
"Uptake kinetics of corals exposed to enriched seawater have led to the conclusion that ammonium is preferentially taken up over nitrate (D'Elia & Webb1977, Wilkerson & Trench 1986)"
https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/68/m068p065.pdf

"....ammonium (NH4+) enrichment tends to benefit coral health....NH4+ enrichment was able to amend the deleterious effects of thermal stress by favoring the oxidative status and energy metabolism of the coral holobiont"
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-68916-0

"Among the different dissolved nutrients, ammonium is the preferred source of nitrogen for symbiotic corals (Figure 1a) (Grover et al., 2002, 2008)."

A single-cell view of ammonium assimilation in coral–dinoflagellate symbiosis - PMC

Assimilation of inorganic nitrogen from nutrient-poor tropical seas is an essential challenge for the endosymbiosis between reef-building corals and dinoflagellates. Despite the clear evidence that reef-building corals can use ammonium as inorganic ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There's also a ton of podcasts that cover ammonia dosing with positive effects from well known reefers. Here's a RB article that mentions a study (though doesn't link to it):

"The simplest way to increase nitrate and phosphate in the reef aquarium is to add more fish, and feed them more. Corals and their algae can also uptake ammonia from those fish directly." https://reefbuilders.com/2023/08/24/study-reveals-how-corals-gain-n-and-p-in-darwins-paradox/


Although...I'm not sure any of these scientists have hobby reef tanks themselves so maybe we shouldn't be listening to them @Alexander1312 :p
Click to expand...
Not an area I am concerned with so I let it slide :). Dong made a ton of comments on ammonia vs nitrate in this recent interview and it sounded that the ammonia preference does not really matter too much (unless I misunderstood, since the audio was not great).

 
derek_SR said:
"Uptake kinetics of corals exposed to enriched seawater have led to the conclusion that ammonium is preferentially taken up over nitrate (D'Elia & Webb1977, Wilkerson & Trench 1986)"
https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/68/m068p065.pdf

"....ammonium (NH4+) enrichment tends to benefit coral health....NH4+ enrichment was able to amend the deleterious effects of thermal stress by favoring the oxidative status and energy metabolism of the coral holobiont"
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-68916-0

"Among the different dissolved nutrients, ammonium is the preferred source of nitrogen for symbiotic corals (Figure 1a) (Grover et al., 2002, 2008)."

A single-cell view of ammonium assimilation in coral–dinoflagellate symbiosis - PMC

Assimilation of inorganic nitrogen from nutrient-poor tropical seas is an essential challenge for the endosymbiosis between reef-building corals and dinoflagellates. Despite the clear evidence that reef-building corals can use ammonium as inorganic ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There's also a ton of podcasts that cover ammonia dosing with positive effects from well known reefers. Here's a RB article that mentions a study (though doesn't link to it):

"The simplest way to increase nitrate and phosphate in the reef aquarium is to add more fish, and feed them more. Corals and their algae can also uptake ammonia from those fish directly." https://reefbuilders.com/2023/08/24/study-reveals-how-corals-gain-n-and-p-in-darwins-paradox/


Although...I'm not sure any of these scientists have hobby reef tanks themselves so maybe we shouldn't be listening to them @Alexander1312 :p
Click to expand...

Also, Randy Holmes-Farley discusses forms of ammonium and amounts to dose here.

www.reef2reef.com

DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

Some reef aquaria have chronic low nitrogen availability. One indicator is very low nitrate. Nitrate dosing is a fine remedy, but it is possible that ammonia dosing may be more beneficial for some organisms since ammonia can be energetically easier to assimilate than is nitrate. For this...
www.reef2reef.com www.reef2reef.com
 
jamie said:
a year and a half since the move. then another year prior to that
Click to expand...
Not a new tank by any means. I was just asking because I had a hard time with fluctuating nutrient levels when my tank was under 6 mths to a year. Are you running a fuge at all?
 
iani said:
Not a new tank by any means. I was just asking because I had a hard time with fluctuating nutrient levels when my tank was under 6 mths to a year. Are you running a fuge at all?
Click to expand...
no, just a toadstool down there for a reverse photo period
 
I also face low phosphates/nitrates and my (LPS) tank is a little older than 6 months. My desired parameters are P: .06+/ N 15+. Until I can get to those numbers with feeding, I am currently supplementing P at .29 ppm and N at .06 ppm /daily.
 
iani said:
I can only imagine then what you think is feeding heavy is not.
Click to expand...
im doing two cubes per day. then nori and pellet food. a scoop of pellets about 6 times a day. the nori is 4 sheets that are about 2"x4". then reef chilli at twice the recommended starting dose.
 
fishy408 said:
I also face low phosphates/nitrates and my (LPS) tank is a little older than 6 months. My desired parameters are P: .06+/ N 15+. Until I can get to those numbers with feeding, I am currently supplementing P at .29 ppm and N at .06 ppm /daily.
Click to expand...
im going to keep feeding more for another week. if that doesnt i might look into dosing
 
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