got ethical husbandry?

(Zoom) Call with Fauna Marin CEO Claude Schumacher (if there is interest)

Would you be interested if such an event is organized?

  • Yes, that sounds like something I would be very interested in.

    Votes: 10 66.7%

  • I have very limited availability, but I would try to make it if time allows.

    Votes: 3 20.0%

  • Claude who? No thanks.

    Votes: 2 13.3%
  • Total voters
    15
Alexander1312

Alexander1312

Supporting Member
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Claude agreed to have a private (zoom) call with us whenever we find a date that works for everyone.

Claude is known to go against many mainstream thoughts in reefing with his almost 40 years of reefing experience, of which approximately half are in coral farming, and running his company Fauna Marin (NOT to be confused with Tropic Marin) based in Germany, which sells their products globally.

Claude has come up with a different way of dosing major and minor elements (Balling light), has recently re-introduced an old 'all at once' alkalinity+traces dosing method (BOLUS), which has been very successful in Europe but looked at critically in the US, and runs a larger ICP lab.

He is a very outspoken personality and critical of many practices which some might consider effective. Therefore, the idea is to use the (zoom) call for an informative but also interactive call where we can challenge his proposed best practices with what we know or learned about the hobby.

Before we go ahead and set this up, I wanted to gauge interest in this to see who would be able to attend. If there is interest, we will try to find some time which works for most.

Please refer to one of his first appearances on Reef Bum here to get a view on what to expect:
 
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Coral reefer said:
Maybe we should get rich and Ben to argue with him (or agree?) I don’t really know much about him or anything he has said but I’m down to listen
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I had a similar thought related to Rich.

I will post here some of the topics that are potentially more controversial than others, and I think anyone who feels they want to debate these can bring this up and we can see where we land.

The value this brings over watching a Youtube video is the interactivity during the real time 'in person' discussion that we can have, and hearing different perspectives.

The issue I had with reef2reef when, e.g., BOLUS started taking off is how aggressive the discussion became almost instantly - this is the 59 (!) page BOLUS blog on Reef2Reef which only started in May this year, for ‘inspiration’: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bolus-dosing.1055204/
 
Coral reefer said:
Maybe we should get rich and Ben to argue with him (or agree?) I don’t really know much about him or anything he has said but I’m down to listen
Click to expand...
good idea!

Alexander1312 said:
He is a very outspoken personality and critical of many practices which some might consider effective. Therefore, the idea is to use the (zoom) call for an informative but also interactive call where we can challenge his proposed best practices with what we know or learned about the hobby.
Click to expand...
Hey Alex, do you have challenges in mind to bring up to Claude?
 
What’s the general disagreement (argument) about? Is his methods extreme compared to main stream veiws?

I'm always intrested in more knowledge about reefing. I only ask because I'm clueless as to why some suggest making it into a debate verse just having him talk.

No disagreement one way or the other on my part at all, I'm just not very informed on the bigger picture here.
 
MichaelB said:
What’s the general disagreement (argument) about? Is his methods extreme compared to main stream veiws?

I'm always intrested in more knowledge about reefing. I only ask because I'm clueless as to why some suggest making it into a debate verse just having him talk.

No disagreement one way or the other on my part at all, I'm just not very informed on the bigger picture here.
Click to expand...

There is a thread here on the product. It spells out all the arguments.

BOLUS vs. Kalkwasser

So this is now partially addressing/articulating some of the Kalkwasser concerns, while primarily introducing a new Alkalinity dosing method, i.e. BOLUS (single dose of medicine taken all at once). (fun fact, Fauna Marin will be releasing Kalkwasser for the US market due to popular demand from...
www.bareefers.org
 
Coral reefer said:
Maybe we should get rich and Ben to argue with him (or agree?) I don’t really know much about him or anything he has said but I’m down to listen
Click to expand...
Claude is a tough one to have this kind of conversation with- though I like him very much. He, and Hans, often say they have stuff to support what they are saying, but then often supply something that isn't supporting what they are claiming. That kind of discussion gets tiring!
 
Thales said:
Claude is a tough one to have this kind of conversation with- though I like him very much. He, and Hans, often say they have stuff to support what they are saying, but then often supply something that isn't supporting what they are claiming. That kind of discussion gets tiring!
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I believe you two already had an exchange. I am not sure of the nature or length, but I think it does not sound like it, per your commentary, that this led to finding common ground :).

He promised/indicated/hinted that he would have a more scientifically oriented backup to support the BOLUS benefits sometime in October. Maybe it would be good to time our chat with him once this is available. BOLUS did not originate from a scientifically proven experiment but from a more random approach to trying out dosing practices from the past and seeing what happens. He made this clear in most of his interviews on this topic.

However, our discussion was not meant to focus on BOLUS (only). I do not find BOLUS too fascinating anyway (even though this is how I am dosing alkalinity).

The more interesting part about BOLUS was how Kalkwasser dripping was considered harmful in the long term (while clarifying later that using Kalkwasser through a Kalk reactor is fine). And then there is the rabbit hole with Sodium carbonate and Sodium Bi-carbonate, which then goes into the benefits of Balling light, but not sure how much we want to focus on this as not everyone might be interested, but not sure. Still, his concerns about dosing Kalkwasser directly into the tank could be one topic to debate, as this is a liked approach in this club and is often highly recommended.

Other topics could be ICP value and reliability (or lack thereof), the negative impact of dipping corals too often (he will mention Bayer!), what causes dinos and cyanos etc. I am still thinking of topcis where I know he makes statements which are not as mainstream, but will need to reflect more on the weekend or so.
 
BAYMAC said:
There is a thread here on the product. It spells out all the arguments.

BOLUS vs. Kalkwasser

So this is now partially addressing/articulating some of the Kalkwasser concerns, while primarily introducing a new Alkalinity dosing method, i.e. BOLUS (single dose of medicine taken all at once). (fun fact, Fauna Marin will be releasing Kalkwasser for the US market due to popular demand from...
www.bareefers.org
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, it is not a product.

BAYMAC said:
Get Boomer on the Zoom, or better yet, Randy :) I can ask if you like.
Click to expand...

If this is referring to RHF, I do not recommend this. Their relationship is beyond repair :).
 
Patio said:
good idea!


Hey Alex, do you have challenges in mind to bring up to Claude?
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See my response above. But will collect more. He pretty much has a less expected answer to many common questions than many others, so if you have (or anyone else) has a particular topic they want to discuss, I am happy to weigh in if we will get a different perspective from him.
 
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