Kessil

180 gallon build thread aka Jims' bad idea!

Eileen brought up the importance of the rock structure and I couldn't agree more. I am trying to put very little rockwork in a place where it will impact flow the least. Basically it will be held up and away from all smooth gyre surfaces. Still might not work with any rock at all. But, if worst comes to worst, I don't mind all acrylic structure in my tanks!!
 
[quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=2024.msg19794#msg19794 date=1178130941]
With a gyre, it would be easy to reverse the flow - just have two sets of pumps facing each other and switch them.
Click to expand...

Hmmm I'm unsure if this will really work. I thought half of the idea was the forced water that goes in one side and comes back only to get "repushed" by the pump(s) so that you really keep up the velocity, if you oscillated you'd need to have your pumps to first slow all that water movement down, then bring it back up to speed.. but then again by "switching" if you mean throwing them on a timer that's spaced by 30 minutes or so, that'd probably work wonders.. I'd be curious how this would work on a frag tank.

For a frag tank though... hmm seems like the best of both worlds with stuff on both sides but I thought the point was to NOT have anything on one side simply to allow a place for the water to pick up momentum before coming around. Interesting ideas though, like I don't even know if you need to make equal partitions to make this work. Maybe two small channels one on either side, and a large "display" area down the middle... NORM! Get to work! :)

[/quote]I've seen salmon raceways (gyres) where they have small channels feeding high velocity water to the main tank.
 
I think you are going to run into problems hitting the front corner of the tank - lots of turbulence stopping the flow. If you took some 3 inch clear pipe, cut it in half and glued it to the front bottom corner, I think you might have better results.
 
[quote author=Thales link=topic=2024.msg19826#msg19826 date=1178201937]
I think you are going to run into problems hitting the front corner of the tank - lots of turbulence stopping the flow. If you took some 3 inch clear pipe, cut it in half and glued it to the front bottom corner, I think you might have better results.
[/quote]
Good thought. Let me think about this some more....
 
[quote author=Thales link=topic=2024.msg19826#msg19826 date=1178201937]
I think you are going to run into problems hitting the front corner of the tank - lots of turbulence stopping the flow. If you took some 3 inch clear pipe, cut it in half and glued it to the front bottom corner, I think you might have better results.
[/quote]

That's a pretty pricy option IMO. You'd be better off forming a piece of clear acrylic. A piece of 1/16" done in a stove would be perfect.

IMO gyres should be 6 hours in one direction :)

All successful gyre systems I have seen (mainly in papers) all had some sort of corner wrap.
 
Gresh- Tap sells 3 or three inch diameter mailing tubes that are CHEAP that would be perfect for corners. Sorry I wasn't more clear. :D
 
Yah the plan tubs would work. Careful when cutting that stuff, it likes to crack.
 
They'll cross cut it for you but I really don't think they'll rip it for you. It's so thin that it's actually dangerous to cut like that with power tools. It's a great way to get shanked with out having had to go to prison :)
 
[quote author=Thales link=topic=2024.msg20029#msg20029 date=1178723780]
It cuts easily with scissors.
[/quote]

It has a grain since it's extruded. Some will cut better then others, thats for sure. Scissors are great for the ripping portion but stink IMO for cross cutting :) (I used this for our banners and had to cut it down just recently ;) )
 
Well, a slight change has occurred which leaves me open to re-thinking the whole design. Instead of getting the 180 w/out any o/f's, I'm getting the 180 with the nice, external o/f already mounted on the right side. Perfect for my space. While I could cut it off, patch it and build a Calfo style o/f, why bother? So w/out a Calfo o/f, why do a horizontal gyre instead of a vertical?
What would you do if you were me?
 
Well you know what I would do, I would jump for joy that it's an external overflow. I know the calfo style offers some advantages, but IMO none of them can surpass the additional space gained in the tank by one less "human" thing being in there.
 
Why do a horizontal instead of a vertical? Easy question to answer.

Surface tension = more drag then the bottom and even worse at redirecting the water then the bottom or sides.
You need the space to build up the momemtum
Every corner adds quite a bit of drag as well. If you shoot on a small length, you most likely won't reach any real effecient gyre. You end up having to use a much larger pump to achieve what you would on the length wise horizontal focused gyre.

If the OF is on the side mounted externally, your set to do a length wise hori. gyre.
 
[quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=2024.msg20046#msg20046 date=1178813822]
Well you know what I would do, I would jump for joy that it's an external overflow. I know the calfo style offers some advantages, but IMO none of them can surpass the additional space gained in the tank by one less "human" thing being in there.

[/quote]

He tends to topple frags every time he has to adjust his position or get air :( I heard Steve took frags of him at night :D
 
[quote author=GreshamH link=topic=2024.msg20048#msg20048 date=1178814046]
Why do a horizontal instead of a vertical? Easy question to answer.

Surface tension = more drag then the bottom and even worse at redirecting the water then the bottom or sides.
You need the space to build up the momemtum
Every corner adds quite a bit of drag as well. If you shoot on a small length, you most likely won't reach any real effecient gyre. You end up having to use a much larger pump to achieve what you would on the length wise horizontal focused gyre.

If the OF is on the side mounted externally, your set to do a length wise hori. gyre.
[/quote]Right, I had wondered about the relative efficiencies of a lengthwise horizontal, vs. lengthwise vertical gyre. Given the external o/f, I had abandoned the short gyre thought immediately.
 
[quote author=GreshamH link=topic=2024.msg20048#msg20048 date=1178814046]
Why do a horizontal instead of a vertical? Easy question to answer.

Surface tension = more drag then the bottom and even worse at redirecting the water then the bottom or sides.
You need the space to build up the momemtum
Every corner adds quite a bit of drag as well. If you shoot on a small length, you most likely won't reach any real effecient gyre. You end up having to use a much larger pump to achieve what you would on the length wise horizontal focused gyre.

If the OF is on the side mounted externally, your set to do a length wise hori. gyre.
[/quote]


Try rounding the corners with a tube, cut into quarters.
This process has been used in testing motorboats/ motors in tanks
for many years.
 
Pic
waterroute.jpg
 
I think for aesthetic reasons, if I'm going to round the corners out, I'd choose a horizontal gyre since it wouldn't effect visibility as much.
 
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