Acro Bleaching Question

[Kenzo]

Benefits of dumping extra food are that everything with a mouth appreciates more food. Coral and fish included. And fish poop is one of the best coral foods out there. I would try bumping your fish feeding up to 3x a day to get them pooping more and keep a variety of foods going into the tank. I am one that doesn't like the nitrate dosing method and feel you should just feed more. I will say that Salem's work on ammonia dosing is very good and could make me reconsider what I dose but I routinely keep nitrates closer to 30 in my tanks so I am on the opposite end of the spectrum where I dose vodka to feed the anoxic bacteria to speed up the nitrate to nitrogen gas conversion. Vodka/carbon dosing also can make the phosphate in the tank turn into a more consumable form by bacteria consuming it and the coral consuming the bacteria. Lou Ekus did a good deep dive into carbon dosing that went into this.

Long story short, imo, feed more, more often, more types of food and let the numbers grow naturally.

Take a listen to what Matt Wandell thinks on nutrients on Reef Beef.

Okay I agree completely with this thinking, and would absolutely love to raise levels with just food which is what I've been trying to do. However, it hasn't been working for me since my nitrate hit 0 about 3 months ago. It's just at the point with how much I'm adding, and not seeing the nitrates get off 0, I wanted to try something else.

My nitrates were at a more desirable level before I started running a refugium with chaeto and they've bottomed out ever since.

I'll take a look at the video, thanks for the advice and resource.

 

[Kenzo]

I did a tank reset where I replaced all my aquascape and coral 10 months ago. Nitrates have consistently been at or near zero so I dose ammonia. I use DIY nitrate solution to bring levels to 5ppm after water changes then dose ammonia to try to maintain at that level or at least have nitrates detectable.

From what I've read, this seems like the recommended approach. I think I'll give this a shot.

 

[Kenzo]

0 or near zero is a issue. Coral even acros eat it. You don't want it high of course but you want it to register something at least.

Sps can take weeks to a month to show signs of then being in unfavorable conditions. They take even longer to recover. So stability is always the answer with sps. Everyone here us giving you great advice. I won't claim to be a acropora guru or anything. Yet mine is growing successfully. And I keep things simple just stick to the routine and instead of chasing a number. I have ranges in my head I aim to stay within for testing. So I mainly try to keep things from drifting above or below a range.

Agree on the range over particular number, I just know 0 is not ideal. Trying to combat the 0 nitrates, I did try to increase spot feeding the coral.

Regarding stability, I've learned the hard way how changing more than 1 thing at a time can be problematic so I've tried and will continue to try to make changes gradually.

I appreciate the advice and words of wisdom, I can guarantee everyone giving advice here is more experienced and successful than I've been haha. So thank you.

 

[Darkxerox]

Any particular reason for this? I know ammonium is preferred by coral over nitrates, but they'd both raise nitrates in the aquarium the same. Although I think you're more limited in how much ammonium you can dose vs a nitrate source.

It doesn't require energy like nitrates do for corals to utilize the nitrogen and mimics what the reef gets in transient pulses when groups of fish secrete it from their gills or poop. It's hard to do that with closed systems and high N consumption in some tanks.

The other benefit is that you are balancing alkalinity loss from the ammonium ion vs. if you used NH4CL and not adding extra phosphate to the tank by feeding more fish food.

Downside is that you'll need another dosing pump. https://www.coralvue.com/blog/feeding-the-color-how-ammonium-bicarbonate-can-transform-your-sps-tank

 

[Coral reefer]

7 small fish in ~55G of water. Got it, I'm off to order some nitrate to dose.

Is there a tank journal?
I’m curious what activities you are doing to remove nitrate if any. I find feeding always raises phosphate more than nitrate for me. Seems like you have plenty of fish.
I see you have a refugium with macro algae. You could be “shooting yourself in the foot” a bit with this with your undetectable nitrate depending on your reason for wanting it.

 

[FinalPhaze987]

Ive experienced getting close to bottoming out on NO3 with my algae reactor. PO4 seems to be harder to do so for me. Pax Bellum includes NO3 to dose when levels get close to bottoming out with their chaeto reactor, so its not uncommon to experience. One thing ive found is that when my chaeto grows like crazy, my iodine, iron and molybdenum levels drop significantly, so something you may want to keep in mind.

You can always cut the photo period of your fuge or run less chaeto.

I'd cross check the NO3 test to make sure its not a faulty test kit before dosing anything tho.

 

[Kenzo]

It doesn't require energy like nitrates do for corals to utilize the nitrogen and mimics what the reef gets in transient pulses when groups of fish secrete it from their gills or poop. It's hard to do that with closed systems and high N consumption in some tanks.

The other benefit is that you are balancing alkalinity loss from the ammonium ion vs. if you used NH4CL and not adding extra phosphate to the tank by feeding more fish food.

Downside is that you'll need another dosing pump. https://www.coralvue.com/blog/feeding-the-color-how-ammonium-bicarbonate-can-transform-your-sps-tank

Oh okay, so not something that can be added to an ATO?

 

[Kenzo]

Is there a tank journal?
I’m curious what activities you are doing to remove nitrate if any. I find feeding always raises phosphate more than nitrate for me. Seems like you have plenty of fish.
I see you have a refugium with macro algae. You could be “shooting yourself in the foot” a bit with this with your undetectable nitrate depending on your reason for wanting it.

Tank Journal

Swapping filter socks once a week and running a skimmer which I clean the cup once a week, but that's all.

The refugium definitely had an effect on my nitrates, I started it up for my mandarin and to lower my phosphates. Found out later it's more effective for nitrate reduction since phosphates get bonded in rocks and sand.

 

[Kenzo]

Ive experienced getting close to bottoming out on NO3 with my algae reactor. PO4 seems to be harder to do so for me. Pax Bellum includes NO3 to dose when levels get close to bottoming out with their chaeto reactor, so its not uncommon to experience. One thing ive found is that when my chaeto grows like crazy, my iodine, iron and molybdenum levels drop significantly, so something you may want to keep in mind.

You can always cut the photo period of your fuge or run less chaeto.

I'd cross check the NO3 test to make sure its not a faulty test kit before dosing anything tho.

I've never used an ICP, so I have no idea what those minor element levels look like. Might be worth it to send one in.

I did cut my fuge light down significantly about 1/4 of the time it was previously.

My tests were showing nitrate a few months ago and my regents expire in 2030, so I don't think its false negatives. I'll probably try to grab a salifert kit to double check though.

 

[FinalPhaze987]

There's alot of great minds on here with loads of experience. Starting a tank thread gives you a good venue to get help and look back on past mistakes and success. You should consider making one. It'll help you track your progress.

 

[Kenzo]

There's alot of great minds on here with loads of experience. Starting a tank thread gives you a good venue to get help and look back on past mistakes and success. You should consider making one. It'll help you track your progress.

Tank Journal

Agreed, I do have one although some of it is pretty wordy. I use it like a real journal.

 

[Coral reefer]

You don’t need macro for pods.

 

[grizfyrfyter]

I am part of the group that suggest feeding more over just dosing a single element.

Also, let your filter socks sit a little while longer and you might see a nutrient increase as the trapped food breaks down.

 

[H2OPlayar]

I am part of the group that suggest feeding more over just dosing a single element.

Also, let your filter socks sit a little while longer and you might see a nutrient increase as the trapped food breaks down.

Or remove them alltogether

 

[Mike Yasin]

I would dip the corals immediately and observe what comes off. The dip can be a healing solution as well. It’ll take a while for them to fill back in. Like others I suggest you get some nitrates in there asap. I make my own ammonium and urea to keep nitrate stable. I don’t dose nitrate directly - much better nutrient profile using urea and ammonium. You can now buy it premixed - Salem started a company called Microbial Marine and has released a product called nitrous that is this specific ratio

 

[Kenzo]

To provide an update to this about 6 weeks post the initial incident. I began dosing a potassium nitrate solution of 10g/L and the bleaching has stopped, tissue has began to gain color again, and my acros have
continued to grow.

My initial strategy was to add ~35ml to my ato every time I had to top off the 5g reservoir which was about every 9 days. I didn't see any changes to my nitrate levels, but algae did begin to pop back up in some spots and the affected acros did show signs of healing. About 4 weeks in, I increased the dose to 45ml and as of the last 2 weeks I saw my NO3 testing at 0.8ppm and just today at 1.7ppm.

I think I'll dial my dose back to ~40ml and see if I can slow the rising level until we can keep a steady level. I'm also seeing stable levels of P04 with my continual gfo media bag, however, I just ran out of the simplicity gfo I had sitting for years. Now I have to replenish and I'm unsure what product to go with. I was considering high capacity but am doing my research on whether it's worth the premium. Any experience with this is appreciated.

The attached photos are of the same Bill Murray in different locations. The coral on the frag rack getting lower light, but also having healed from previous bleaching/paling. Also don't mind the polyps being retracted, I moved the rack before taking the picture.

 

[Yippee]

To provide an update to this about 6 weeks post the initial incident. I began dosing a potassium nitrate solution of 10g/L and the bleaching has stopped, tissue has began to gain color again, and my acros have
continued to grow.

My initial strategy was to add ~35ml to my ato every time I had to top off the 5g reservoir which was about every 9 days. I didn't see any changes to my nitrate levels, but algae did begin to pop back up in some spots and the affected acros did show signs of healing. About 4 weeks in, I increased the dose to 45ml and as of the last 2 weeks I saw my NO3 testing at 0.8ppm and just today at 1.7ppm.

I think I'll dial my dose back to ~40ml and see if I can slow the rising level until we can keep a steady level. I'm also seeing stable levels of P04 with my continual gfo media bag, however, I just ran out of the simplicity gfo I had sitting for years. Now I have to replenish and I'm unsure what product to go with. I was considering high capacity but am doing my research on whether it's worth the premium. Any experience with this is appreciated.

The attached photos are of the same Bill Murray in different locations. The coral on the frag rack getting lower light, but also having healed from previous bleaching/paling. Also don't mind the polyps being retracted, I moved the rack before taking the picture.

That is a nice change in your coral. What level are you trying to keep your phosphate at?

 

[Kenzo]

That is a nice change in your coral. What level are you trying to keep your phosphate at?

Thanks, as long as they're detectable and under 0.30ppm, I'm happy.

 

[Alexander1312]

To provide an update to this about 6 weeks post the initial incident. I began dosing a potassium nitrate solution of 10g/L and the bleaching has stopped, tissue has began to gain color again, and my acros have
continued to grow.

My initial strategy was to add ~35ml to my ato every time I had to top off the 5g reservoir which was about every 9 days. I didn't see any changes to my nitrate levels, but algae did begin to pop back up in some spots and the affected acros did show signs of healing. About 4 weeks in, I increased the dose to 45ml and as of the last 2 weeks I saw my NO3 testing at 0.8ppm and just today at 1.7ppm.

I think I'll dial my dose back to ~40ml and see if I can slow the rising level until we can keep a steady level. I'm also seeing stable levels of P04 with my continual gfo media bag, however, I just ran out of the simplicity gfo I had sitting for years. Now I have to replenish and I'm unsure what product to go with. I was considering high capacity but am doing my research on whether it's worth the premium. Any experience with this is appreciated.

The attached photos are of the same Bill Murray in different locations. The coral on the frag rack getting lower light, but also having healed from previous bleaching/paling. Also don't mind the polyps being retracted, I moved the rack before taking the picture.

Potassium, Molybdenum, and Iodine are very important but highly under appreciated elements and should always be kept in range. Potassium should stay (slightly) lower than CA, approx 20 mg/L / ppm below, if possible.

My GFO preference is this (does not need to be washed): https://premiumaquatics.com/product...2&_sid=0522df51e&_ss=r&variant=48148023967986

Alternatively, this would be my second choice: https://premiumaquatics.com/product...2&_sid=1c18fd1e2&_ss=r&variant=47329528021234

 

[Kenzo]

Potassium, Molybdenum, and Iodine are very important but highly under appreciated elements and should always be kept in range. Potassium should stay (slightly) lower than CA, approx 20 mg/L / ppm, if possible.

My GFO preference is this (does not need to be washed): https://premiumaquatics.com/product...2&_sid=0522df51e&_ss=r&variant=48148023967986

Alternatively, this would be by second choice: https://premiumaquatics.com/product...2&_sid=1c18fd1e2&_ss=r&variant=47329528021234

I've been wanting to try out Fauna Marin, thanks for the rec. The product sounds awesome, I think I'll give it a shot.

Regarding the potassium levels, I don't ICP so I have no idea where those levels current sit. Should I be concerned about raising levels too high with my current dosage? If so, is there another nitrate dosing method that would be less potentially problematic?