Coral reefer
Past President
You can also dose nitrates easily enough. Reef roids will def increase phosphates as said above.
Alex’s IM 150 EXT
- Thread starter Alexander1312
- Start date
You have an amazing looking tank! Thanks for sharing all the info about your parameters and testing. I haven't done an ICP test yet, but probably will at some point. Cheers!
Oh...and still no sign of the mantis. My daughter swears she's seen it but it was a split second. Lol
Oh...and still no sign of the mantis. My daughter swears she's seen it but it was a split second. Lol
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
I am quite annoyed with the lid that came with the tank, but since it was ‘free’, it was better than not having one 
.
I am planning to get a custom lid from my favorite acrylic vendor Octoaquatics. However, I do not know what would be useful to have customized in terms of openings, so i am looking for input from the group as to what could be useful features that you wish you had considered.
I know this comes mostly down to what I need for this tank specifically based on the equipment and usage, but I was hoping that you might have some additional general suggestions.
. I am planning to get a custom lid from my favorite acrylic vendor Octoaquatics. However, I do not know what would be useful to have customized in terms of openings, so i am looking for input from the group as to what could be useful features that you wish you had considered.
I know this comes mostly down to what I need for this tank specifically based on the equipment and usage, but I was hoping that you might have some additional general suggestions.
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
Dinos, i.e., large cell amphidiniums, has been now confirmed to be my issue (microscope). Despite Aquabiomics confirmed high diversity, this could not help this ‘baby’ tank from being protected against these - interesting lessons learned for me. Nutrients never bottomed out, as often referred to as a cause, but they got pretty low and I consistently worked on increasing them, and now they are relatively high, i.e., Nitrate 12.7, Phosphate 0.19.
Similar to prorocentrums, they cannot be fought easily with UV (not sure why I am always that lucky…), and the approach is similar to prorocentrums, mainly to dose Sodium Silicate to get silicates to 2-3 ppm, and start a diatom bloom to outcompete them.
Today, started to add 2ml of Sodium Silicate (0.1 ml/15 gallon to increase by 1 ppm) into 300 ml RODI water and added this to the tank. Let's see how it goes. Will check weekly via the microscope and then add half the dose weekly if needed.
Wish me luck.
Similar to prorocentrums, they cannot be fought easily with UV (not sure why I am always that lucky…), and the approach is similar to prorocentrums, mainly to dose Sodium Silicate to get silicates to 2-3 ppm, and start a diatom bloom to outcompete them.
Today, started to add 2ml of Sodium Silicate (0.1 ml/15 gallon to increase by 1 ppm) into 300 ml RODI water and added this to the tank. Let's see how it goes. Will check weekly via the microscope and then add half the dose weekly if needed.
Wish me luck.
Good luck! When I fought LCA I squirted the silicate solution directly into the sand to promote diatom growth there. It took 2-3 weeks before I saw a shift in the ratio diatoms to dinos when observing samples under a microscope.
Casey's 120g Peninsula Build
Looking at the tank daily makes it seem like coral growth is a snail's pace so always nice to look back on old photos. I tend to take a bunch of photos but never sort through them. 5-6 month progress pics :D PC Superman: Dec 2020 - May 2021 RR Pink Floyd: Jan 2021 - May 2021. Bought this one...
www.bareefers.org
Coral reefer
Past President
That looks like something I have that won’t go away in a clients tank to my naked eye. Might need a scope
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
Thanks Casey. Good idea actually. How did you get the solution directly into the sand bed?
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
From what I am reading, they are very similar to prorocentrum, less bubbly on the sand bed and also seem to be less aggressive. Also, most importantly less/not toxic, which is good if true. I fought prorocentrums twice successfully in the nano tank, so I still feel confident winning this battle (until I don’t…
…).No water changes were key in the success last time, and the only thing I am not sure yet is if I should dose traces or not, specifically iron which is recommended to not dose. I am a believer of the theory that traces being out of balance causing dinos initially, and I have already started fixing this, and I would prefer not to stop. Still thinking about this.
@Alexander1312 you want ???
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derek_SR
Supporting Member
I was just about to ask what you thought caused them - how do you think the trace elements got out of whack? How often/large water changes were you doing? What were you dosing besides kalk (any bottle bacteria or chemiclean)?
I’m asking because I am terrified of Dino’s again, and very curious about how they show up in live rock tanks.
I’m asking because I am terrified of Dino’s again, and very curious about how they show up in live rock tanks.
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
The low nutrients caused/triggered them probably. I have been doing 10% weekly water changes, and stopped (when I started seeing them). I have not been adding any bottled bacteria except PNS Pro Bio (and certainly no chemiclean). PNS lowers Nitrates so it could have indirectly caused Dinos by lowering the nutrients further (but not cause Dinos directly).
The traces in a new tank are never in balance, I believe, and I have the results of my second ICP test, and still more work to do. I have the custom solution from Captiv8 to address the ICP deficiencies, but it will take another month or two until they are where they should be. Fauna Marin can predict after five ICP tests if you will get Dinos, and they also help fixing them through trace improvements.
I believe if your nutrients are not too low, the risk of getting them is very low. My tank was too clean even after feeding a lot (refugium, strong skimmer etc), and I had a feeling that they would come soon or later.
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
thanks so much for the offer. My nutrients are high enough at the moment (12/0.19), so I would not need them at the moment.
Rookie numbers! LOL
Sorry to read about the bad news. It's an amazingly slim line we are balancing with keeping these tanks. I am curious though, would you be willing to gamble on higher nutrients than what you currently consider high? What corals are you concerned for that couldn't handle it?
Kensington Reefer
Supporting Member
I
10% WC is a waste of time
It’s not large enough to dilute
And not large enough to replenish
Consider a FART in an elevator...
Out with the nasty
In with the clean
IMHO
10% WC is a waste of time
It’s not large enough to dilute
And not large enough to replenish
Consider a FART in an elevator...
Out with the nasty
In with the clean
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
. I am currently more focused on achieving the 100:1 ratio between nitrates and phosphates, which apparently is a strong approach to keeping algae in check (source: Claude Schumacher, most recent ReefBum interview). I assume this would include Dinos. If I am not able to lower phosphates to 0.1, I might actually dose nitrate. I am not concerned about corals as they have been doing fine.
If it doesn't work for you, just switch to something more simple and rely on your herbivores and your tweezers for algae control. You've got a foxface, a zebrasoma and a ctenochaetus in there (which look really healthy btw!), plus trochus, urchins, maybe grab a conch and you shouldn't see much growth at all. Get some coralline from other tanks and try to get it to spread on your well lit surfaces.
Curious to see if the silicate addition will help control dinos too. I'd stop using any mechanical filtration now until the dinos are gone too (minus the skimmer).
Curious to see if the silicate addition will help control dinos too. I'd stop using any mechanical filtration now until the dinos are gone too (minus the skimmer).
derek_SR
Supporting Member
+100
I am surprised to hear that people are still pushing nutrient ratios as I thought that was largely debunked. (or anything to do with nutrients as a means of algae control). At any rate, Dinos are not algae anyway, though I'm sure you knew that!
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
Thank you Thomas! So just to clarify, I do not have an algae(*) (see response to Derek below) issue (?), I believe. My tank has been too clean from the beginning, and I knew this would bite me eventually. I blame the early setup of a (strong) refugium and a rather good skimmer to be reasons for this. I made changes to address this problem, but seems like this was not fast enough and the dinos outpaced me…There is some good coralline growth given the tank is 10 weeks or so old, and the fish probably do a great job. Thanks for the compliment on the fish btw, I should post a more recent picture (hard to take pictures of fish as they not seem to like to pose…), but they are really looking better every day.
I did have success twice with daily silicate dosing, so hopefully this works this time too given this is LCA vs prorocentrums, but apparently they require the same treatment.
Re the mechanical filtration, actually, I was planning to stop this anyway, but I am not sure how to do this practically since the tank is very (!) silent, but if I take out the floss etc, it will be very noisy. Any ideas how to do this practically?