Reef nutrition

Alex’s IM 150 EXT

Since the issues with the yellow tang, I have tried to identify any mistakes I am making with keeping him. One of the several books I bought while I was in Germany this summer is the one below. It is more of a booklet, a coral magazine branded and translated "Tangs in the Reef Aquarium." The first edition of this book was published in 2008, and its current fourth edition was released in 2022.

The author is Prof Dr. Ellen Thaler from Austria, a Zoologist, who seems to have been studying fish behavior for almost 40 years (unfortunately, she died last year at 92).

A short but super informative book, with two statements which I found particularly interesting:

1. Feeding danelions: She states that (all) tangs should be fed 50% greens and 50% other high-quality food (frozen food, primarily mysis, flakes, etc). For the greens, she swears by feeding dandelions almost exclusively over any other type of green plants, due to their high amount of vitamins, fiber, and other content (which I could not translate correctly, but one of them is tannin?). For the past few weeks, I have been offering now (organic) dandelion, in addition to seaweed, and started growing (organic) dandelion a few weeks ago (slow progress as seen below). I cannot tell if the yellow tang or the white tail eats it, but the foxface seems to like it (I know they eat anything). It is also expected to take several weeks for tangs to develop a taste.

2. Keeping them in pairs: I know this is very controversial, as many have kept them individually successful for, in some cases, a very long time. However, she claims that yellow tangs should always be kept in pairs. Again, her academic research focuses on fish behavior, and she claims that while yellow tangs occur in nature in large groups, they are typically always paired up within these large groups. Also, not keeping them in pairs might not lead to their immediate death, but rather a continuous decline over the years, which would result in premature death compared to their long lifespan.

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Grandpa in @derek_SR 's tank was kept as the solo tang on SF Bay brine and spirulina flakes for 26+ years with no HLLE or bloating ever. Just some male pattern baldness (dorsal fin recession). Lots of ways to skin a cat. Old school way was daily romaine lettuce and occasional peas if bloating was seen, but I've personally followed the no terrestrial foods provided to our fish rule.
 
Grandpa in @derek_SR 's tank was kept as the solo tang on SF Bay brine and spirulina flakes for 26+ years with no HLLE or bloating ever. Just some male pattern baldness (dorsal fin recession). Lots of ways to skin a cat. Old school way was daily romaine lettuce and occasional peas if bloating was seen, but I've personally followed the no terrestrial foods provided to our fish rule.

There is always an exception to the rule, but I did think of your fish. And there are probably many out there, but that does not mean that this is the ideal way to keep them. Some humans also prefer to live alone :). We had this topic covered previously, but in Europe, many keep their fish in pairs (unless it is known to cause issues for certain species), and I would probably not keep a single fish species going forward unless there is a very good reason for it.
 
There is always an exception to the rule, but I did think of your fish. And there are probably many out there, but that does not mean that this is the ideal way to keep them. Some humans also prefer to live alone :). We had this topic covered previously, but in Europe, many keep their fish in pairs (unless it is known to cause issues for certain species), and I would probably not keep a single fish species going forward unless there is a very good reason for it.

Some of us have always strived for pairs, trios, odd numbered groups.

came back to say... even shrimp, etc I try to keep in pairs & groups.
 
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Since the issues with the yellow tang, I have tried to identify any mistakes I am making with keeping him. One of the several books I bought while I was in Germany this summer is the one below. It is more of a booklet, a coral magazine branded and translated "Tangs in the Reef Aquarium." The first edition of this book was published in 2008, and its current fourth edition was released in 2022.

The author is Prof Dr. Ellen Thaler from Austria, a Zoologist, who seems to have been studying fish behavior for almost 40 years (unfortunately, she died last year at 92).

A short but super informative book, with two statements which I found particularly interesting:

1. Feeding danelions: She states that (all) tangs should be fed 50% greens and 50% other high-quality food (frozen food, primarily mysis, flakes, etc). For the greens, she swears by feeding dandelions almost exclusively over any other type of green plants, due to their high amount of vitamins, fiber, and other content (which I could not translate correctly, but one of them is tannin?). For the past few weeks, I have been offering now (organic) dandelion, in addition to seaweed, and started growing (organic) dandelion a few weeks ago (slow progress as seen below). I cannot tell if the yellow tang or the white tail eats it, but the foxface seems to like it (I know they eat anything). It is also expected to take several weeks for tangs to develop a taste.

2. Keeping them in pairs: I know this is very controversial, as many have kept them individually successful for, in some cases, a very long time. However, she claims that yellow tangs should always be kept in pairs. Again, her academic research focuses on fish behavior, and she claims that while yellow tangs occur in nature in large groups, they are typically always paired up within these large groups. Also, not keeping them in pairs might not lead to their immediate death, but rather a continuous decline over the years, which would result in premature death compared to their long lifespan.

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Trouble growing dandelions?!? I've got a lifetime supply in my backyard...I can frag some up for you. Maybe start a DBTC. :cool:

Grandpa is doing great btw! And there ARE 2x yellow tangs in my DT now. Perhaps they will pair up (unsure of their sex).
 
Trouble growing dandelions?!? I've got a lifetime supply in my backyard...I can frag some up for you. Maybe start a DBTC. :cool:

Grandpa is doing great btw! And there ARE 2x yellow tangs in my DT now. Perhaps they will pair up (unsure of their sex).

Great idea. If you can get a certified organic label on yours, I would be super interested in coming by with my farming tools to harvest them, something like below. Currently only buying them from sprouts...

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So the freshly home-grown organic dandelions are now a hit with the problematic yellow tang, and she is eating a lot (as well as other food) since we started feeding this. The foxface and yellow tang can eat several leaves within less than an hour, so we are struggling to keep up with the supply and have expanded our crops into a larger garden area. I can see us eventually getting rid of those useless roses (which no one likes to eat anyway).

The white tail has still not touched them (it took the yellow tang two weeks to eat them).

This is what I used to grow them:

1. Obscenely priced organic dandelion seeds


2. Fertilizer: Neptune's Harvest Fish & Seaweed Fertilizer 2-3-1 (36 Ounce) https://a.co/d/1D9TzCQ
 
Nitrates and Phosphates remain rather high in this tank - 28 mg/L and 0.32 mg/L, respectively.

I have been using 5 ml Elimi NP daily, which keeps parameters from exploding, but I believe I simply feed too much and have potentially too many fish in there.

Also, the skimmer - Reef Octopus Elite 200 INT - does not seem to do a good job - skim mate is very light in color - not the dark stuff which @Darkxerox pulls out of his tank. I played around with all the settings for weeks, and it does not seem to change anything. I am planning to replace the skimmer temporarily with a DELTEC 1000, thanks to Justin B, who was super kind to lend me his spare skimmer to try out if this solves the issue.

In addition to the skimmer, I am planning to address nitrates and phosphates separately.

I will be starting to address phosphates first.

LC would give me results, but I am not feeling comfortable with using this potentially longer term. I have been thinking of trying out a product from Fauna Marin, which they released in 2018. It is an adsorber similar to GFO, but they do not disclose what is in there. The current assumption is that it is a blend of GFO, aluminum adsorber, and other adsorbing media. The main benefit is supposed to be that it would not go below 0.04 mg/L of phosphates.


The downside of this product is that it is not cheap, not sure how long it will last, and that it needs to be in a media reactor with very little flow 25 - 50 g/h.

I bought this media reactor a while ago for similar purposes, but its pump is far too strong.

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I am planning to attach a Sicce Nano or Sicce Syncra 1.0 to it, but not sure how it can fit the 3/4 inch hose (ID) it comes with. Also, I am not sure if either are weak enough at their lowest settings. I would be curious to know how others get their pumps to be lower in flow. Ball valve? Something like this?

I was able to find a skimmer setting which seems to work rather well (continues to skim wet, but that’s ok). Connecting it to the Hydros port allowed to find a sweet spot at 60% pump speed. Water level is 8 inch, but the dial is still set slightly below 2, hence the wetter skimming.

Nitrate has come down to 17, but this might be more about larger water changes of <50 gallons weekly.

This week, I have also started using two additional Fauna Marin products which are meant to have a slow but lasting impact on nitrate and phosphate levels. I cannot tell if they are effective but should be able to conclude in a few weeks.

These are the two products:

1. https://www.faunamarin.de/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Layout_Rebiotic_EN_How-To-Use_22_02_24-1.pdf

2. https://www.marineandreef.com/Fauna_Marin_Coral_Balance_250_ml_p/rfm45319.htm
 
, but I've personally followed the no terrestrial foods provided to our fish rule.
In the past Ive come across non terrestrial pellets designed for tilapia aquaponic systems which probably maybe suitable for saltwater..
Do you know of any non terrestrial marine brand pellets besides freeze dried stuff ?
Thanks
 
In the past Ive come across non terrestrial pellets designed for tilapia aquaponic systems which probably maybe suitable for saltwater..
Do you know of any non terrestrial marine brand pellets besides freeze dried stuff ?
Thanks
Supposedly Vitalis pellets are marine protein only (with vitamins etc added).

New Life Spectrum has like wheat, garlic, ginger, and a few other things (although I fed fish these for years, only downside I experienced was crazy phosphates).

TDO has wheat, soy, potato starch, etc also from the otohime formulation (of course @BAYMAC correct me if I'm wrong).

Not sure what's in DKI pellets other than the shrimp and microalgae they list.

Benepellets have soy and corn.

But again, all up to the fish keeper and their choices of course.
 
I have also now found a suitable media reactor for my Phos 0.04 media. Similar to activated carbon, which I run 24/7, it is recommended to run this adsorber mix with a maximum of 50 gallons per hour (25-50 gallon/h).

It is super easy to find a high flow setup, but low flow has been much harder.

I bought the DELTEC FR 509 used on eBay - if anyone has another one for sale, I would love to buy another one for my activated carbon - and added a Sicce nano to it (the slowest pump I could find).

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BTW, the pump is plugged into the wrong hose on the picture in case you wonder :). This is because the [apparent] flow arrows on the reactor show different directions. I am clarifying with DELTEC why this is, but have changed this now.

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I have also now found a suitable media reactor for my Phos 0.04 media. Similar to activated carbon, which I run 24/7, it is recommended to run this adsorber mix with a maximum of 50 gallon per hour (25-50 gallon/h).

It is super easy to find a high flow setup, but low flow has been much harder.

I bought the DELTEC FRB 509 used on ebay - if anyone has another one for sale, I would love to buy another one for my activated carbon - and added a sicce nano to it (the slowest pump I could find).

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BTW, the pump is plug into the wrong hose on the picture in case you wonder :). This is because the flow arrows on the reactor show different directions. I am clarifying with DELTEC why this is but have changed this now.

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I don't think those are flow arrows, I believe they are manufacturing dates. On the "inlet" the arrow is pointing to 9 which could be September and there is a 2 and 1 on each side of the arrow which could be year 2021. If you look at the elbow on the other side of the union, it is pointing perpendicular to the flow.
 
I don't think those are flow arrows, I believe they are manufacturing dates. On the "inlet" the arrow is pointing to 9 which could be September and there is a 2 and 1 on each side of the arrow which could be year 2021. If you look at the elbow on the other side of the union, it is pointing perpendicular to the flow.

You are a genius. I would not have guessed that. I think I should stop rushing through these installs next time. I just saw the arrows and thought this was meant to be the flow direction. Thank you for the explanation!
 
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