Algae scrubbers vs refugium: DIY, pros/cons?

[rygh]

In the experiment they ran it seemed like they had no CUC in the "display", so it was just "lighting both display and refugium with light, doing this with several different lights, and seeing which one grew more nuisance algae in the display". So, determining if a refugium could out-compete nuisance algae/prevent it from taking root.

The "dosing hair algae/etc" into the tank is another part of why I'm likely going to shy away from the scrubber. Cool idea, love it, but more maintenance + more moving parts when I'm trying to keep everything simple.

I personally feel the "purely outcompete" idea is BS.

My ATS outcompetes algae in the main tank because there is a big cleanup crew of snails and tangs.
But once you have a CUC (and why would you not) problem solved.

The reason I feel this way is because of observations during tank crashes.
When all my snails die, I get hair algae in the main tank.
ATS running the same the whole time.

 

[RandyC]

In the experiment they ran it seemed like they had no CUC in the "display", so it was just "lighting both display and refugium with light, doing this with several different lights, and seeing which one grew more nuisance algae in the display". So, determining if a refugium could out-compete nuisance algae/prevent it from taking root.

The "dosing hair algae/etc" into the tank is another part of why I'm likely going to shy away from the scrubber. Cool idea, love it, but more maintenance + more moving parts when I'm trying to keep everything simple.

I think, at the end of the day, they both work; it's just a matter of preference. In regards to "good turf scrubbers high-powered lights", I'd bet the answer is 'yes'. BRS did a good series where they tested several different lights on nutrient control and macroalgae (chaeto) growth in a test environment and in a more realistic setup; one of the points they made is that it's unrealistic to spend thousands on lighting a display, then expect smaller/weaker lights to outcompete that in a refugium.

I've appreciated the discussion from everyone, though! As much as I'd like the mini frag tank idea, I think the hassle/maintenance of a scrubber is pushing me towards the refugium option.

Yeah. This sounds like a marketing line. “Don’t go buy cheap lights because it won’t work. Buy our expensive name brand name grow lights for your fuge from us!”

I promise you, with enough light spread and a decent fuge volume (say at least 5% of total water volume), you can bottom out nutrients. If you use light panels (~$40-50) on multiple sides, you will grow chaeto like crazy as long as you have the nutrients and trace elements to do so.

 

[IOnceWasLegend]

Yeah. This sounds like a marketing line. “Don’t go buy cheap lights because it won’t work. Buy our expensive name brand name grow lights for your fuge from us!”

I promise you, with enough light spread and a decent fuge volume (say at least 5% of total water volume), you can bottom out nutrients. If you use light panels (~$40-50) on multiple sides, you will grow chaeto like crazy as long as you have the nutrients and trace elements to do so.

I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive. Their data showed that the cheap lights tended to put out less PAR and "usable" radiation, that the more expensive lights put out more, and that they all worked, just to various degrees. To me that says you can (probably) get the same performance with multiple cheaper lights versus one expensive light, and that the more expensive lights may be overkill for smaller fuges.

 

[RandyC]

I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive. Their data showed that the cheap lights tended to put out less PAR and "usable" radiation, that the more expensive lights put out more, and that they all worked, just to various degrees. To me that says you can (probably) get the same performance with multiple cheaper lights versus one expensive light, and that the more expensive lights may be overkill for smaller fuges.

The key point is that they imply that a less expensive solution won’t work because the display lights cost much more than a “cheap” grow lights. To me saying a less expensive solution is “unrealistic” is equivalent to saying it won’t work. Which is far from the truth.

 

[rygh]

ATS lights are less expensive because of the usage requirements, not because of quality.

Display lights must penetrate water, and they need to be both optimized for coral, plus have a good color spread to appeal to user.
That penetration and coverage really cranks up the power requirements.
That color requires more expensive LEDs, controls, and drivers.

ATS lights only penetrate 1/8 inch of water, can be a horrible pink color, and need zero real control.
Plus, red and blue LEDs are really simple and cheap to manufacture.

 

[Coral reefer]

I had great success with the chaeto refugium using an H380 in my now-defunct RSR250 as well. I'll probably end up going with that approach again after everyone's responses; but a big appeal of the algae scrubber (and why I keep coming back to it even though I know it'd be more of a PITA) is the ability to then use the refugium chamber as an in-system frag tank.

Just put on your big boy pants and plan for a separate (but ideally connected) frag tank. You know you’ll want the space. Lie to me if you want, but not yourself

 

[Scott Sweet]

I have had both. I have had 2 refugiums over the years..one on each of my tanks. When I set up my current tank, I designed the sump to accept the Turbo Aquatics L2 scrubber. and have a 20 gallon gravity flow refugium. I never got the TA scrubber to produce much of anything and the refugium has done its job very well with Chaeto and lots of other good stuff in there . I put pods in there periodically and it has a deep sand bed. Lots of good stuff growing in it and feeding back in to the main display. It isn't the perfect refugium because the flow goes in to the compartment where the return pump is in and the return pump sends it back in to the display. Ideally, it should flow directly in to the display...but I didn't have the room to do that....pumps can kill critters . I have a refugium light on it with a schedule that is the opposite of my main display lights. This evens out the ph fluctuations that naturally occurs with the tank.

Refugiums have changed over the years. When Sprung/Delbeek wrote their book, they recommended it to be a slow flow place for goodies to grow and gravity flow to the main display...with chaeto and whatever other algaes you want in the system...but not necessarily in the display. People started to put them in the sump where there is high flow with tumbling chaeto. In my mind, that is really not a refugium because nothing can really survive/grow in the higher flow area other than the tumbling chaeto.

I am probably just going to take off the TA L2 scrubber and sell it...because I found it never really did anything.