Jestersix

Be careful!

Another humbling/scary story.

For what it’s worth, his described complications are more consistent with a bacterial infection from the water/coral than from palytoxin. In some ways this makes it more scary since you can’t avoid it by avoiding messing with zoas/palys.
 
It's always struck me as odd how cavalier we are in working with bare skin and open wounds in our tanks, when they are not just teeming with bacteria, microbes, but full of sharp and jagged edges to injure us and introduce them.

Stuff like this is just a reminder to be careful and to be safe, because it only takes one time like this to be really sorry.
 
I'll place frags into the tank or glue one on with bare hands but I've taken to wearing latex gloves for most other tasks. Mostly because of bristleworms. When working with zoa/paly's out of the tank gloves have been the norm since i learned about palytoxin. With some care the risk is very low.
 
I agree Dr. John! Sounds like deep bacterial infection in his lymphatic system caused by the wound that was likely more severe than he let on. It is hard to pass that barrier from blood to lymphatic system without significant trauma to the area.

Palytoxin is relatively rare in the hobby and the zoas/palys can be fragged safely with proper precautions. I am not saying to be cavalier with them, but they are nothing to be afraid of.
 
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H2OPlayar said:
I agree Dr. John! Sounds like deep bacterial infection in his lymphatic system caused by the wound that was likely more severe than he let on. It is hard to pass that barrier from blood to lymphatic system without some trauma to the area. Palytoxin is relatively rare in the hobby and the zoas/palys can be fragged safely with proper precautions. I am not saying to be cavalier with them, but they are nothing to be afraid of.
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Agreed with all of this, I just always let new reef keepers know out of an abundance of caution.

A friend of mine was working with (what he thought was) dead rock he procured from a fellow reefer. He was trying to scrape some dried algae off the rock and, as best he could tell, aerosolized the remnants of a zoa/paly colony.

Both he and his cat had to be hospitalized because of respiratory distress. Both made full recoveries, but it's a cautionary tale I like to tell: "You'll probably be fine, but be careful."
 
My guess is the paly/zoa thing is overblown. However I also know from other hobbies (road bike racing) that people that are deep in a hobby tend to start completely undercounting the dangers. I've decided I really like the pretty zoa colony pictures people have, and I'll continue to look at those pics and not get any zoa/poly colonies in my tanks. I've had them in the past, but not this time around.

That being said, just last week I was fragging some Xenia to put some in my kids' room tank. I grabbed the plug, and using a sharp edge started prying a sub-colony off. Seconds later I got a perfect stream of Xenia juice shot directly into my eye from it. As I was standing there rinsing my eyes out with garage sink water, I decided to buy another pair of clear glasses for next time.
 
There is also the tradeoff on convenience vs safety.
Big huge thick gloves will keep you safe, but you are less likely to use them all the time.

Me:
Injury - stay out of the tank entirely.
Cleaning the acrylic - bare hand.
Poking around with corals and such - simple latex gloves
Moving rocks - I do have heavy arm length rubber gloves for those rare times.
I wear regular glasses all the time, but no safety glasses.
 
I remember reading this several years ago FYI

Finger infection

Well, I hope is not that but if needed then I have to see a doctor tomorrow. I got my hands in the tank that the heather went bad, I had a small cut on one of my fingers and did not wear a glove even that the box was close to me; guess it was the rush of the moment to deal with the tank. I...
www.bareefers.org
 
PjFish said:
I remember reading this several years ago FYI

Finger infection

Well, I hope is not that but if needed then I have to see a doctor tomorrow. I got my hands in the tank that the heather went bad, I had a small cut on one of my fingers and did not wear a glove even that the box was close to me; guess it was the rush of the moment to deal with the tank. I...
www.bareefers.org
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Also bacterial infection, not palytoxin.

I just want to draw attention to the point that although palytoxin is certainly scary and is unique to the hobby so it’s sexier, the vast majority of problems like this are from bacterial infections. Therefore nothing to do with zoas/palys specifically. If you have an open cut/sore, keep that hand/arm out of your tank, period. Gloves are a good idea, nitrile gloves with rubber band around the wrist works. Don’t need to be fancy thick arm-length ones unless you are allergic to something in there.
 
Yup my bout with vermitid snails and puncturing my knuckle, went similar to the photo, I saw the long red "road" going up my arm. My hand puffed up big time too like I was wearing training gloves. Luckily no surgery was necessary and the broad spectrum AB they put me on knocked it down (I think that AB resistant form of staph was going around at the time so they didn't mess around), by the next day my hand was back to normal.

And as John said, bacterial infection, no palytoxin, being on an IV drip of antibiotics will not help against palytoxins IIRC. The bigger issue with them is getting into your respiratory system, although you can consume them with bad results as well. But yeah if I have a wound on my hand, my tank goes on a cleaning/fragging hiatus, algae be damned.
 
JVU said:
Also bacterial infection, not palytoxin.

I just want to draw attention to the point that although palytoxin is certainly scary and is unique to the hobby so it’s sexier, the vast majority of problems like this are from bacterial infections. Therefore nothing to do with zoas/palys specifically. If you have an open cut/sore, keep that hand/arm out of your tank, period. Gloves are a good idea, nitrile gloves with rubber band around the wrist works. Don’t need to be fancy thick arm-length ones unless you are allergic to something in there.
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Right. Rich posted some useful info for me to relay to the medical personnel at the hospital.
 
What is the difference between our tanks and the water at the beach? I’ve never thought twice about going in the water with a healing cut; it’s not unusual for people to get cuts and scrapes IN the water without reactions like the ones that have been shared. Is there more bacteria or a certain kind of bacteria that we have? Obviously, this question doesn’t have to do with paly toxin.
 
Flagg37 said:
What is the difference between our tanks and the water at the beach? I’ve never thought twice about going in the water with a healing cut; it’s not unusual for people to get cuts and scrapes IN the water without reactions like the ones that have been shared. Is there more bacteria or a certain kind of bacteria that we have? Obviously, this question doesn’t have to do with paly toxin.
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You really shouldn’t go into oceans or any body of water with cuts or open wounds. Of course it’s fairly rare (and I’m actually really bad at following this advice ;)), but the risk is real.

- https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/Germs/story?id=5253208&page=1
- https://www.livescience.com/59353-tattoo-flesh-eating-bacteria.html
- https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/news/a...an-wound-at-once-to-reduce-risk-of-infection/

But my guess is there is a higher concentration of Vibiro bacteria in our tanks than in the ocean. My last aquabiomics test shows that 30ish percent of the bacteria in my tank is from the Vibrionaceae family (which Vibrio is in). My result is apparently on the high side compared to other tanks they’ve tested, but I’d put some money on this that is probably the cause.

From wiki: “Several species of Vibrio are pathogens. Most disease-causing strains are associated with gastroenteritis, but can also infect open wounds and cause sepsis.”

“Pathogenic Vibrio species can cause foodborne illness (infection), usually associated with eating undercooked seafood. When ingested Vibrio bacteria can primarily result in watery diarrhea along with other secondary symptoms”
 
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