Buying Quarantined fish from Bay bridge

[ofzakaria]

Most that I talk to will not medicate if they see ick. They will try to feed heavy, water change etc. Most will not notice flukes, and anything else is usually lethal by the time you see symptoms severe enough past a casual glance.

As @rygh said, there is a lot of misinformation, advice based anecdotal (at best) experiences etc regarding fish disease.

My 2cents.

Even if I buy from a place that does QT/medication, I continue to do my own QT/treatments once the fish gets to me. Why? Because I can then control and qualify each step. I had an ich free tank for a few years. Each fish was put through TTM and was dosed with several medications along the way before being introduced into my tank.

That make sense. Thanks for the tip.

 

[MichaelW]

Most that I talk to will not medicate if they see ick. They will try to feed heavy, water change etc. Most will not notice flukes, and anything else is usually lethal by the time you see symptoms severe enough past a casual glance.

As @rygh said, there is a lot of misinformation, advice based anecdotal (at best) experiences etc regarding fish disease.

My 2cents.

Even if I buy from a place that does QT/medication, I continue to do my own QT/treatments once the fish gets to me. Why? Because I can then control and qualify each step. I had an ich free tank for a few years. Each fish was put through TTM and was dosed with several medications along the way before being introduced into my tank.

This is the best way! Starting with a fish already having a low likelihood of disease and in good health, and then repeating a treatment and/or isolation process provides one additional layer of risk reduction and opportunity to break the life cycle of pathogens.

 

[yoyohead]

Thank you Michael for the excellent explanation !!!!!

 

[ofzakaria]

This is a good read on the topic. I think it answer some of @rygh points

Actual vs. Half-baked Quarantine

So it seems like nowadays everyone and their brother is selling "quarantined" fish. :p Which begs the question: How can I tell the real deal from vendors who are just using "quarantined fish" as a catchphrase?? Right off the bat AVOID a "half-baked" vendor who tells you any of the following: I...

humble.fish

 

[ofzakaria]

So here is an update.
Michael end up getting the shipment. He got 5 nice flasher wrasse.
He continued to update me with great level of details every 3 days or so.

This is sample of the first update he got me when he received the shipment

A heated and ultra aerated tank of 8gal was prepared hours ahead of arrival and its pH adjusted to 7.4.
The fish were acquired and rushed back to the shop QT ASAP.
In complete darkness, the temperature, salinity and pH of one bag was verified. 21.5°C, 1.026 and 6.82, respectively. The test bag was immediately resealed to avoid carbonic acid developed from accumulated CO2 to turn back into CO2 and off-gassing. CO2 escaping will cause a rapid rise in pH which will be terrible for the fish. The fish have been in the bags for many days slowly acclimating to hypoxic and acidic conditions, which ionizes ammonia(NH4) to ammonium (NH3-) which is nontoxic. Over time they have also been filling their tissues with cortisol and lactic acid from stress and the lack of activity. Increasing pH will cause free ammonium inside the body to become ammonia and cause catastrophic organ damage that may not show for weeks, so it cannot be raised rapidly. Light is extremely stressful to fish in distress and after long periods of darkness and performing the acclimation while the fish sleep and are relatively unaware is most optimal. Changes in water chemisty and osmoregulation utilize vast amounts of energy, which needs oxygen. Warmer water reduces the water's oxygenation and speeds metabolism, so colder water is better. Fright and rapid movements increases oxygen consumption drastically, and can starve the fish of oxygen regardless of the oxygen content.

Acetic acid (to reduce pH) and methylene blue (to increase the oxygen binding capacity of hemoglobin) was immediately added to the quarantine tank and adjusted downward to 6.82 at 22.5°C and 1.020.

The fish bags were then cut open and the fish immediately removed and placed into their new tank.

It is well aerated by a high pressure air pump and an air stone.
The acetic acid is oxidized by the air and slowly breaks down into OH- and CO2, which then gets off-gassed, and the water pH will then rise back up naturally over time. This happens simultaneous to the ammonium diffusing out of the fish and into the large volume of new water, where it's then neutralized by Fritz Complete/Prime, and the fish is never exposed to ammonia during its acclimation. After 1 hour, the pH increased to 7.25, and then 7.35 after 2 hours. It is preferable not to exceed a 0.3 chance of pH per day if possible. But, the fish obviously cannot survive terribly long in acid.

During this entire time, the fish is seemingly asleep and nearly non-reactive to basic stimuli. As the sun comes up over the morning gradually to light the building, they will hopefully wake up happy without a rapid light shock . Fish do have circadian clocks and absolutely show signs of jet lag, and that must also be recovered from.

They will not be fed. Eating uses much oxygen which must be reserved for the body to re-osmoregulate itself and recover.

Over the next few days, they will be adjusted to new clean unadulterated saltwater which will raise pH some more.

It is too early to treat them with any medications, however I keep 5mg/gal of Chloroquine in my stock QT water which isn't an issue.

They will get either a malachite or peroxide bath after they are well adjusted, if no lesions are present, and then moved to a larger tank. They will then start off with a 50% dose of metronidazole and fed some metro-bound food, and gradually exposed to continuing CP until/unless adverse reactions show. Fish typically not able to tolerate CP can be adjusted to it nevertheless when done with extreme caution and precise dosing.

 

[ofzakaria]

Over the last 2.5 weeks, the 5 flashers went through multiple TTM change. 1 died after arrival 4 still in good shape.
Today he updated me that he will do the 4th TTM change.
Man this guy has 4 madagascar flasher wrass..crazy..
But it kinda show how brutal this biz is. He had need to order tripple what he has demand for, to increase his chances that he end up with one alive for the customer.

 

[ofzakaria]

Will try to update this thread without sharing all Michale write up cause it was insane effort that i want to leave it to him if he want to share all the details.
But for now, enjoy some of the pictures that he shared from his current shipment.

 

[ofzakaria]

Yet another update from BBA, the 4th TTM is done. The wrasses looking good and comfortable.

 

[ashburn2k]

Salt is only 15.9?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[ofzakaria]

Salt is only 15.9?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

i do not know, i think the first one showing 31. will check with him good catch...

 

[Chromis]

@ofzakaria did you get your QT’d fish home yet?

 

[ofzakaria]

@ofzakaria did you get your QT’d fish home yet?

Not yet, probably this weekend. Fish is healthy and eating. I got Lots of pictures every other day. Waiting for the green light from Michael to pick up.

 

[ofzakaria]

Looks like my flasher wrass is ready. I will be picking it up this weekend. The wrass is
reportedly healthy and eating pretty well..
Will update once I get it in the tank.

 

[ofzakaria]

Finally had some time to make the drive and pick up my wrass from Bay Bridge aquarium.
The wrass was ready 3 weeks ago, but I was so busy I couldn't make the drive.
When I went to the store, @MichaelW was very helpful and nice, he fed the fish pellet and the fish looked awesome and healthy. He packaged it in a rather large bag. am acclimatingthe wrass now, my plan is to have it in the frag tank for the coming couple weeks then move it to the DT....

Will post pictures and update accordingly.

Cheers.

 

[Chromis]

Nice!

 

[Bruce Spiegelman]

It is amazing how difficult it is to do what he's doing. I purchased two Flame Wrasses from him last year before he moved locations when he got about 20 of them in. He kept me updated on progress, but apparently none of them made it. I can't imagine what that cost him. I believe there was a second batch as well, but not enough of those made it for me to get mine. Hopefully the next time he gets a pair in I'll get mine. He did ship me a beautiful Betta I also wanted which flew through QT without issue, and it's doing great.

 

[Drendo]

Wow, what a great read! I have wanted a Madagascar for a while, but refrained since some of my wrasse have gone mia, which would hurt with one of these guys. Love to see more photos.

 

[ofzakaria]

The wrass is happy and eating. Still hides alot, but comes out when I feed and did eat pellets and frozen..so far so good.

 

[aquaticcentral]

I like BBA. Hope they do well. The fact they're trying to qt is great.

On a side note, isn't it true that it takes months to qt for ich alone because it can remain dormant inside a fish ? I distinctly remember reading an article stating something to that effect. Point being, I don't think it's possible to ever truly be "in the clear".

 

[MichaelW]

It is amazing how difficult it is to do what he's doing. I purchased two Flame Wrasses from him last year before he moved locations when he got about 20 of them in. He kept me updated on progress, but apparently none of them made it. I can't imagine what that cost him. I believe there was a second batch as well, but not enough of those made it for me to get mine. Hopefully the next time he gets a pair in I'll get mine. He did ship me a beautiful Betta I also wanted which flew through QT without issue, and it's doing great.

Wish I could get more flame wrasses in, but no more Hawaii But the Hooded Flame Wrasses are pretty awesome and regularly available now.