Ecoflow battery w/ Apex EB832

[richiev]

Also I would recommend the non-river versions. The river versions do not have a grounded AC outlet. The Deltas do, though I'm not sure every model does. They also seem to have better $ per kWh trade offs. Slightly more expensive though.

Finally, if you're going to go this route, you might as well look into the ones that tend to come with the extra battery.

If anyone wants, i have a spreadsheet with $ / kWh comparisons of various EcoFlows vs Tesla PowerWalls vs ... I can copy for you, but not sharing on the public internet because I have some other data in it. Gist was the EcoFlows can be more cost-effective than a PowerWall or other home device. At one point a Delta Max was available for $0.45 per kWh, which is even cheaper than a multiple-PowerWall install. However if you have solar and your power goes out, a PowerWall / home battery means your solar can recharge the battery. That doesn't generally work in other situations though.

 

[finalphaze987]

After a couple years free of outages, we've had two in the last couple months - the Ecoflow worked flawlessly, and neither outage outlasted it. It's a pretty solid product, and the prices have come down quite a bit lately too. It's also not physically super large (about 12" tall for the one we're discussing) so I have it stashed in the bottom shelf of my cabinet. It also has an app that I don't really use, but it allows you to monitor things remotely so you can see if you have a power outage while you are away and (I think) set up notifications - haven't explored this much myself yet.

A lot of people recommend the smaller river units - but I think the extra couple hundred bucks for a full 1kwh is worth it with a larger tank. Keep in mind that including your entire EB832 will likely drain the battery significantly faster if you've got a heater connected - you can do the math yourself in terms of wattage draw.

That's one reason I like the hydros so much, the WaveEngine is a standalone component that is the ONLY thing plugged into the delta, so 100% of the battery is dedicated to maintaining flow.

12" tall is alot smaller than I anticipated. I was thinking of using my extension box from my build to house the back up battery vs ato container.

When designing it, I failed to realize that the front opening can not accommodate the opening of the IM drawer.

With the space left after putting the power strips in, It can't house more than a 5 gallon container unless custom built.

I liked the slim one that @suphad on his tank previously and may go that route if i have the ato container external. It would at least match, but still look good.

 

[finalphaze987]

Oh sorry. Just having a conversation. Didn't mean to impose. Think I'll just leave this group now.

I found your input to the convo very helpful and glad you chimed in. I think @JVUpost may have been misinterpreted, i don't think he meant it to have any sort of tone...just helping me course correct my original plan.

Please, continue to chime in...its post like this that help me avoid mistakes during my build =)

 

[finalphaze987]

We Had a outage this morning I was informed of it while at work it was just my neighborhood. A transfer blew up. Wifensaid it listed hours. I got my kids to put my small battery fish keeper bubbler in the tank and rotatenit between the tanks. I need to get one for each tank and consider a backup power option in case one goes on for much longer.

This solidified my urgency in getting one of these units. Thx for sharing.

 

[finalphaze987]

I have both of my tanks on ecoflow batteries (Reefer 500 and a 60ish gallon frag tank).

I split things to two separate power supplies (kasa hs300 power strips):

AC Power (wall)
    -> EcoFlow AC Outlet
        -> Critical power strip
                -> return pump
                -> one heater
                -> controller
                -> other misc small power usage and useful things
                -> battery backup bubbler


    -> Misc power strip
        -> lights
        -> other heaters
        -> other powerheads
        -> everything else

That means if my power goes out, the big power draws (lights) drop out immediately and my main life support things continue running.

If my ecoflow battery dies, then the battery backup bubbler will automatically turn on (it kicks on when it sees the power drop).

I have my units sized to give me many hours of battery that way. The biggest gotcha is the heater, which can massively burn through power, but I mitigate that by using a smaller sized one and have enough battery backup to last awhile. One can reasonably argue only have a powerhead on the ecoflow, but I sized up because I didn't want to do that.

Disclaimers on the ecoflow:

• I have had mine turn off when it shouldn't have. I can't explain why, but even with AC set to always on I have had at least once it turn off.
• It can work this way, as effectively a UPS, but it will affect the long-term life of the battery.
• Run this way it always is making you waste power, since it's internally doing some power conversions. What I read is you might be expecting a > 10% loss.
• It has a DC outlet, which I think is only 12v. Useful, but not super useful. That should in theory have less power conversion losses, but I never use it given it's only 12V

THANK YOU! I haven't gotten to learning any of the coding on the apex yet, but this will help alot for when I dive in!

 

[finalphaze987]

Also I would recommend the non-river versions. The river versions do not have a grounded AC outlet. The Deltas do, though I'm not sure every model does. They also seem to have better $ per kWh trade offs. Slightly more expensive though.

Finally, if you're going to go this route, you might as well look into the ones that tend to come with the extra battery.

If anyone wants, i have a spreadsheet with $ / kWh comparisons of various EcoFlows vs Tesla PowerWalls vs ... I can copy for you, but not sharing on the public internet because I have some other data in it. Gist was the EcoFlows can be more cost-effective than a PowerWall or other home device. At one point a Delta Max was available for $0.45 per kWh, which is even cheaper than a multiple-PowerWall install. However if you have solar and your power goes out, a PowerWall / home battery means your solar can recharge the battery. That doesn't generally work in other situations though.

I looked into the Tesla power walls and had to come to terms that it was a huge cost that would have pushed my build back pretty far. Seeing that a cost analysis has been done on the cost per kWh relieves me from any regret in not doing so.

I've seen ecoflow packages that include solar panels. Would you consider these useful for our applications? I would probably not go with the foldable ones, but if I could mount one of the hard panels to the roof for added insurance during an outage, that would definitely be a plus.

 

[richiev]

I looked into the Tesla power walls and had to come to terms that it was a huge cost that would have pushed my build back pretty far. Seeing that a cost analysis has been done on the cost per kWh relieves me from any regret in not doing so.

I've seen ecoflow packages that include solar panels. Would you consider these useful for our applications? I would probably not go with the foldable ones, but if I could mount one of the hard panels to the roof for added insurance during an outage, that would definitely be a plus.

I thought about it at one point, but I cannot see myself realistically running a cable through a wall and putting holes in my roof (or side of house) for an ecoflow battery. The solar panel thing seems useful for outdoor use, but indoor-unit combined with outdoor-panel seems impractical.

Not saying it's not doable, but looking at how much effort you put into a clean tank setup, I don't think there's a realistic setup where it'd work out.

For me, my power outage backup is:

• Ecoflows on the tank, as described above (again noting I have not all pumps on the ecoflow, in case the ecoflow screws up)
• Automated alerts, ran externally, when my devices lose connectivity. This alerts me that possibly my power might've gone out, or honestly if I forgot to turn something important back on.
  • uptimerobot.com checking some devices I have externally exposed
  • some devices like the Red Sea ones will have an alert fired if they haven't connected recently
• My EV has a 120V AC outlet and a huge battery compared to a PowerWall / EcoFlow

Ecoflows then are my automatic help when something drops, giving me a runway to deal with the problem (or continue sleeping). The alerts tell me something dropped if I'm not at home. The EV can give me a week of full power. The combination covers almost all cases, but the total cost of all that is very high. However, most of the cost is the EV, which is also ... our vehicle, so .

When I go out of town for a prolonged period I connect my EcoFlows to extension cords, plugged into wall outlets, and leave my EV. If I lose power, I can get ahold of a neighbor and ask them to at their convenience unplug the cable from the wall, and connect to the car.

And yes, this has happened multiple times. I'm not kidding when I say 75% of the time we leave the house for a couple days, the power ends goes out. It's ridiculous.

 

[Darkxerox]

I looked into the Tesla power walls and had to come to terms that it was a huge cost that would have pushed my build back pretty far. Seeing that a cost analysis has been done on the cost per kWh relieves me from any regret in not doing so.

I've seen ecoflow packages that include solar panels. Would you consider these useful for our applications? I would probably not go with the foldable ones, but if I could mount one of the hard panels to the roof for added insurance during an outage, that would definitely be a plus.

I think @Thales has a system like this that charges only this battery on a separate circuit? Pretty cost effective and helps give backup.

@FullerReef also has a smaller panel based battery that has been pretty effective in his use too.

 

[finalphaze987]

I thought about it at one point, but I cannot see myself realistically running a cable through a wall and putting holes in my roof (or side of house) for an ecoflow battery. The solar panel thing seems useful for outdoor use, but indoor-unit combined with outdoor-panel seems impractical.

Not saying it's not doable, but looking at how much effort you put into a clean tank setup, I don't think there's a realistic setup where it'd work out.

For me, my power outage backup is:

• Ecoflows on the tank, as described above (again noting I have not all pumps on the ecoflow, in case the ecoflow screws up)
• Automated alerts, ran externally, when my devices lose connectivity. This alerts me that possibly my power might've gone out, or honestly if I forgot to turn something important back on.
  • uptimerobot.com checking some devices I have externally exposed
  • some devices like the Red Sea ones will have an alert fired if they haven't connected recently
• My EV has a 120V AC outlet and a huge battery compared to a PowerWall / EcoFlow

Ecoflows then are my automatic help when something drops, giving me a runway to deal with the problem (or continue sleeping). The alerts tell me something dropped if I'm not at home. The EV can give me a week of full power. The combination covers almost all cases, but the total cost of all that is very high. However, most of the cost is the EV, which is also ... our vehicle, so .

When I go out of town for a prolonged period I connect my EcoFlows to extension cords, plugged into wall outlets, and leave my EV. If I lose power, I can get ahold of a neighbor and ask them to at their convenience unplug the cable from the wall, and connect to the car.

And yes, this has happened multiple times. I'm not kidding when I say 75% of the time we leave the house for a couple days, the power ends goes out. It's ridiculous.

Thank you for the insightful info...drilling a hole in my house would require a permission slip to get signed off by the wife and I didn't think it would fare well despite the cost savings...we just got our roof done a couple years back, so drilling more up there might be the deal breaker..

Scary to hear how frequent your outtages are..looks like I'll be springing for the bigger system

 

[JVU]

I have Powerwalls which have always covered me during outages, and have the 2 big advantages of recharging from my home’s solar, and powering the whole house.

I also have setup the ability to power my tank specifically from my EV car if the PW’s were running low. I haven’t had to, but I have it ready to go.

These options are obviously way more expensive. But they have other real benefits beyond tank backup. And the PW’s have easily paid for themselves already with rebates and PGE savings. So not really as expensive as the retail price.

If I didn’t have PW’s I’d get something like the Ecoflows, but I’d supersize them. Worrying about your battery running out adds a lot of stress.

 

[finalphaze987]

I think @Thales has a system like this that charges only this battery on a separate circuit? Pretty cost effective and helps give backup.

@FullerReef also has a smaller panel based battery that has been pretty effective in his use too.

I recall him mentioning it on an episode of reefbeef, but not too much was said...their recent episode featuring the ecoflow is what got me looking into it more..ill check those out tho...thx!

 

[finalphaze987]

I have Powerwalls which have always covered me during outages, and have the 2 big advantages of recharging from my home’s solar, and powering the whole house.

I also have setup the ability to power my tank specifically from my EV car if the PW’s were running low. I haven’t had to, but I have it ready to go.

These options are obviously way more expensive. But they have other real benefits beyond tank backup. And the PW’s have easily paid for themselves already with rebates and PGE savings. So not really as expensive as the retail price.

If I didn’t have PW’s I’d get something like the Ecoflows, but I’d supersize them. Worrying about your battery running out adds a lot of stress.

I'm thinking long term this is my goal...I like the idea of pulling from the EV like you and @richiev mentioned..it may be time for me to part with my V8 and go with a Tesla..

After the all the feedback on the thread, I'm on the hunt for the biggest ecoflow I can fit..and although running off batteries sucks, but if it's an emergency, better that than nothing..my last build was wiped by an outtage and has still got me paranoid.

 

[richiev]

My suggestion, if you're not overly worried about the short term capital layout:

• PowerWall is optimal if you have solar, can do time of use electrical optimizations with a grandfathered-in NEM-2.0 (let it run off battery during peak to get paid the most), and can fit multiple batteries. In a long time period that can almost be free. If you can only fit one battery (like me), the cost savings don't really work out, because the install isn't amortized across batteries. Once you hit 3 batteries you're at almost max savings. Best benefit is solar can charge the battery when the power goes out.
• EcoFlows are the next best, and can be the same cost $/kWh as the 2+ PowerWall setup, before accounting for ToU optimizations (which make the PowerWall the cheapest). I would not drastically oversize, since the kWh cost can be low, but the other ROI on the other options (home battery, EV) are higher
• An EV is also a big expenditure, but extremely all around useful, and have long term cash savings. I would look for models with V2L, or ideally V2H / V2G. L means load, so gives you AC output. That's what my Kia has. H means house, G means grid, which mean they can serve as a home battery backup. The only one that really does that right now in the US is the Ford Lighting, which would give you a truck again. However there are supposed to be others coming too. However, even these can't necessarily charge from solar when your power is out.

EV + EcoFlow would be the most multi purpose option IMO. Home battery is great if you have the space, solar, but has a lot less battery than EcoFlow + EV. My EV has the battery output of around 6 PowerWalls. However I'm going to be incredibly annoyed the day that power goes out and my solar can't do anything, including run my house, because I don't have a battery.

 

[finalphaze987]

My suggestion, if you're not overly worried about the short term capital layout:

• PowerWall is optimal if you have solar, can do time of use electrical optimizations with a grandfathered-in NEM-2.0 (let it run off battery during peak to get paid the most), and can fit multiple batteries. In a long time period that can almost be free. If you can only fit one battery (like me), the cost savings don't really work out, because the install isn't amortized across batteries. Once you hit 3 batteries you're at almost max savings. Best benefit is solar can charge the battery when the power goes out.
• EcoFlows are the next best, and can be the same cost $/kWh as the 2+ PowerWall setup, before accounting for ToU optimizations (which make the PowerWall the cheapest). I would not drastically oversize, since the kWh cost can be low, but the other ROI on the other options (home battery, EV) are higher
• An EV is also a big expenditure, but extremely all around useful, and have long term cash savings. I would look for models with V2L, or ideally V2H / V2G. L means load, so gives you AC output. That's what my Kia has. H means house, G means grid, which mean they can serve as a home battery backup. The only one that really does that right now in the US is the Ford Lighting, which would give you a truck again. However there are supposed to be others coming too. However, even these can't necessarily charge from solar when your power is out.

EV + EcoFlow would be the most multi purpose option IMO. Home battery is great if you have the space, solar, but has a lot less battery than EcoFlow + EV. My EV has the battery output of around 6 PowerWalls. However I'm going to be incredibly annoyed the day that power goes out and my solar can't do anything, including run my house, because I don't have a battery.

All really good info...I got alot of research to do on EVs before I make that jump...the usual "I swear I got it off the forum for $50" won't fly with that one, but im sure since we have a little one around again it would make for good justification..."it's for the baby" seems to be a more appropriate approach and would really be the case. That and has isn't getting any cheaper. Lol

We got solar when we downsized and moved in to our house, but im in the same boat and without a battery. Ultimately that's what I'm shooting for since I'd want more than the tank to have power when needed..in a couple years maybe..till then, the Delta 3s are appealing and don't look too bad if I placed it beside the tank.

 

[JVU]

My suggestion, if you're not overly worried about the short term capital layout:

• PowerWall is optimal if you have solar, can do time of use electrical optimizations with a grandfathered-in NEM-2.0 (let it run off battery during peak to get paid the most), and can fit multiple batteries. In a long time period that can almost be free. If you can only fit one battery (like me), the cost savings don't really work out, because the install isn't amortized across batteries. Once you hit 3 batteries you're at almost max savings. Best benefit is solar can charge the battery when the power goes out.
• EcoFlows are the next best, and can be the same cost $/kWh as the 2+ PowerWall setup, before accounting for ToU optimizations (which make the PowerWall the cheapest). I would not drastically oversize, since the kWh cost can be low, but the other ROI on the other options (home battery, EV) are higher
• An EV is also a big expenditure, but extremely all around useful, and have long term cash savings. I would look for models with V2L, or ideally V2H / V2G. L means load, so gives you AC output. That's what my Kia has. H means house, G means grid, which mean they can serve as a home battery backup. The only one that really does that right now in the US is the Ford Lighting, which would give you a truck again. However there are supposed to be others coming too. However, even these can't necessarily charge from solar when your power is out.

EV + EcoFlow would be the most multi purpose option IMO. Home battery is great if you have the space, solar, but has a lot less battery than EcoFlow + EV. My EV has the battery output of around 6 PowerWalls. However I'm going to be incredibly annoyed the day that power goes out and my solar can't do anything, including run my house, because I don't have a battery.

I agree with each specific point you make. But big picture, if you own your home, powerwall plus solar is by far the best and most cost effective solution. It is free after a short payback period, getting shorter every year thanks to PGE rate hikes. Mine is fully paid back and now paying pure dividends against my PGE bill, and I have 4 PW’s and a 13 kW solar system. My batteries charge at night when it’s cheaper and use the energy when it’s expensive, and the solar goes back to grid when expensive, on EV2A rate. Better than free. None of the other options can do that. If you rent your home, this isn’t an option, and it’s an expensive upfront cost. So I’m not trying to say it’s the only good choice for everyone.

I have EVs, and have them setup up for backup power if needed, but the real reason I have them is because they are better vehicles and better for the environment. They aren’t really an optimal backup system since it requires being home and doing stuff to get it connected. I also have free charging for them which is never going to pay them off but does offset.

If I had to choose between my Powerwalls and my EV’s vs my tank, I’d choose the PWs and EVs.

 

[PjFish]

I have both of my tanks on ecoflow batteries (Reefer 500 and a 60ish gallon frag tank).

I split things to two separate power supplies (kasa hs300 power strips):

AC Power (wall)
    -> EcoFlow AC Outlet
        -> Critical power strip
                -> return pump
                -> one heater
                -> controller
                -> other misc small power usage and useful things
                -> battery backup bubbler


    -> Misc power strip
        -> lights
        -> other heaters
        -> other powerheads
        -> everything else

That means if my power goes out, the big power draws (lights) drop out immediately and my main life support things continue running.

If my ecoflow battery dies, then the battery backup bubbler will automatically turn on (it kicks on when it sees the power drop).

I have my units sized to give me many hours of battery that way. The biggest gotcha is the heater, which can massively burn through power, but I mitigate that by using a smaller sized one and have enough battery backup to last awhile. One can reasonably argue only have a powerhead on the ecoflow, but I sized up because I didn't want to do that.

Disclaimers on the ecoflow:

• I have had mine turn off when it shouldn't have. I can't explain why, but even with AC set to always on I have had at least once it turn off.
• It can work this way, as effectively a UPS, but it will affect the long-term life of the battery.
• Run this way it always is making you waste power, since it's internally doing some power conversions. What I read is you might be expecting a > 10% loss.
• It has a DC outlet, which I think is only 12v. Useful, but not super useful. That should in theory have less power conversion losses, but I never use it given it's only 12V

Your automation of battery backup bubbler would definitely be key saving fish!. Ive seen and read multiple posts of fish deaths due to lack of oxygen from return pump failures or power outages. You can run several power heads on batteries but if they are down low with no surface agitation providing oxygen fish deaths will happen depending on fish volume & length of outage. I ran almost 3 days without power only using battery bubblers on several tanks before with no fish loss luckily was summer. You can also just run the return pump every hour or so for a bit adding oxygen it doesn’t need to be constantly running then can compromise with a bit of heat if needed. Piece of mind now with battery backup + tri fuel generator I can roll out.
@richiev would you mind a quick run over over of your battery backup bubbler schematics? Thanks
@newfly thanks for the Dc to Dc cable tip!!

 

[richiev]

I agree with each specific point you make. But big picture, if you own your home, powerwall plus solar is by far the best and most cost effective solution. It is free after a short payback period, getting shorter every year thanks to PGE rate hikes. Mine is fully paid back and now paying pure dividends against my PGE bill, and I have 4 PW’s and a 13 kW solar system. My batteries charge at night when it’s cheaper and use the energy when it’s expensive, and the solar goes back to grid when expensive, on EV2A rate. Better than free. None of the other options can do that. If you rent your home, this isn’t an option, and it’s an expensive upfront cost. So I’m not trying to say it’s the only good choice for everyone.

I have EVs, and have them setup up for backup power if needed, but the real reason I have them is because they are better vehicles and better for the environment. They aren’t really an optimal backup system since it requires being home and doing stuff to get it connected. I also have free charging for them which is never going to pay them off but does offset.

If I had to choose between my Powerwalls and my EV’s vs my tank, I’d choose the PWs and EVs.

Agree. My hope is that V2G fully materializes and bridges the rest of the gap. For example, if you have a Ford Lightning and its charger, it has V2G with bidirectional charging. That means when plugged in it can function as a home battery, and even be used for ToU cost hacks. And it has a giant giant battery (base 98kW, long range 138kW), which if you could use the whole thing is 8-10 PowerWalls!

The lightning itself doesn't pass the cost/benefit analysis, and from my research I don't think it can charge from solar if your electric goes out (I can't recall the term for it), but medium-long term that will be a very compelling option. Supposedly multiple vehicles already have the tech for it, since this exists internationally, but there's some reasons US doesn't have it which I didn't really read through.

PowerWall though right now is a very solid option, and I would've gotten a setup if I could've fit 2 (due to window placements and such I can't only fit 1 at my place).

Your automation of battery backup bubbler would definitely be key saving fish!. Ive seen and read multiple posts of fish deaths due to lack of oxygen from return pump failures or power outages. You can run several power heads on batteries but if they are down low with no surface agitation providing oxygen fish deaths will happen depending on fish volume & length of outage. I ran almost 3 days without power only using battery bubblers on several tanks before with no fish loss luckily was summer. You can also just run the return pump every hour or so for a bit adding oxygen it doesn’t need to be constantly running then can compromise with a bit of heat if needed. Piece of mind now with battery backup + tri fuel generator I can roll out.
@richiev would you mind a quick run over over of your battery backup bubbler schematics? Thanks
@newfly thanks for the Dc to Dc cable tip!!

It's actually very easy because I use one of these. No specific attachment to this brand. I'm pretty sure all the Amazon variations are the same. I'd just pick based on having a usb-c charger.

KEDSUM Battery Aquarium Air Pump, USB Rechargeable Fish Aerator Pump with Accessories for 5-120 Gallons, Portable Aquarium Bubbler Pump for Fish Tank, Outdoor-Fishing, Power Outages and Emergency https://a.co/d/dLzckEO

It is powered by USB. When the USB power cuts out, after a couple seconds it automatically turns on.

If my battery fully runs out the power to the bubbler will stop, which will then trigger that detection and turn on the bubbler. Since I run my return on the battery, I don't try and have the bubbler start until that point.

 

[derek_SR]

Look at this rats nest - absolutely disgusting. This does not meet the standard I've come to expect from your build @finalphaze987

 

[finalphaze987]

Look at this rats nest - absolutely disgusting. This does not meet the standard I've come to expect from your build @finalphaze987

View attachment 61497

Ahh....im caught! Goes to show, we don't always know what goes on behind closed doors....or panels in my case..lol

 

[PjFish]

My suggestion, if you're not overly worried about the short term capital layout:

• PowerWall is optimal if you have solar, can do time of use electrical optimizations with a grandfathered-in NEM-2.0 (let it run off battery during peak to get paid the most), and can fit multiple batteries. In a long time period that can almost be free. If you can only fit one battery (like me), the cost savings don't really work out, because the install isn't amortized across batteries. Once you hit 3 batteries you're at almost max savings. Best benefit is solar can charge the battery when the power goes out.
• EcoFlows are the next best, and can be the same cost $/kWh as the 2+ PowerWall setup, before accounting for ToU optimizations (which make the PowerWall the cheapest). I would not drastically oversize, since the kWh cost can be low, but the other ROI on the other options (home battery, EV) are higher
• An EV is also a big expenditure, but extremely all around useful, and have long term cash savings. I would look for models with V2L, or ideally V2H / V2G. L means load, so gives you AC output. That's what my Kia has. H means house, G means grid, which mean they can serve as a home battery backup. The only one that really does that right now in the US is the Ford Lighting, which would give you a truck again. However there are supposed to be others coming too. However, even these can't necessarily charge from solar when your power is out.

EV + EcoFlow would be the most multi purpose option IMO. Home battery is great if you have the space, solar, but has a lot less battery than EcoFlow + EV. My EV has the battery output of around 6 PowerWalls. However I'm going to be incredibly annoyed the day that power goes out and my solar can't do anything, including run my house, because I don't have a battery.

Ford partnered with Sun Run and sells a solar panel package that will charge the lightning.. But while its solar charging you can’t draw from the batteries which I think their working on a fix for that issue!! Test drove one a few weeks ago cool truck however their tow capacity is very dismal unless your only towing a trailer or boat close to home lol!