Ecotech with apex system vs apex ready wav pump?

[TurboReef]

Hello reefers,
I currently have a ecotech mp40qd that is only a few months old. When I bought this I never planned on a full Neptune apex system.

What I wanted to hear from folks that have “downgraded” their mp firmware to support the

VORTECH/RADION WIRELESS EXPANSION MODULE :: WXM​

Was their any downside ?

vs.

selling the ecotech mp40qd and choosing a “apex ready” wav pump. Maybee a tunze or Neptune wav pump.

Pros/cons?

thank you,

 

[jhuynh]

I have 2 mp40wqd running on reef crest and never linked it to my apex wxm (actually gave it away), mobius, or reeflink. I see no need to have being controlled by it. I only have it connected to the apex eb8 to use the feed cycle program.

 

[ofzakaria]

I have 2 mp40wqd running on reef crest and never linked it to my apex wxm (actually gave it away), mobius, or reeflink. I see no need to have being controlled by it. I only have it connected to the apex eb8 to use the feed cycle program.

Same here. I used the WXM then gave it away. Better control and function with reef link or mobius.

 

[TurboReef]

Same here. I used the WXM then gave it away. Better control and function with reef link or mobius.

what kind of limitations are there when using the WXM module/apex with the Eccotech wav pumps?

can I still set things like rpm, gyre cycles, and on/off times.

Randy

 

[ofzakaria]

what kind of limitations are there when using the WXM module/apex with the Eccotech wav pumps?

can I still set things like rpm, gyre cycles, and on/off times.

Randy

Some new features ecotech added, they did not add it to WXM cause Neptune started selling chinese power heads And pumps to compete with Echotech.
Creating schedules with mobius or reeflink is infinitely better than with the wxm. Synching wave between 2 pumps is much easier with mobius than with wxm.
With vectra, calibration is not possible with wxm..ect.

Similar trend you see with kessil, AI and other vendors they now give you more features if you use their native app..

 

[Vhuang168]

1 of the downsides to rolling back the MP firmware is you can never update the firmware again. So if they release something that will make it function better, you will not be able to use it.

If you intend to keep the MP, leave it on Mobius. That will give you the best use out of those pumps.

Kessil will have their AP9X and their WiFi dongle be compatible with Apex shortly. I believe Sicce is almost there. There are also other manufacturers who are, either planning or have already in the works, ways to integrate their products for control with Apex.

Neptune started selling chinese power heads And pumps to compete with Echotech.

I will not comment on where our WAV pumps and COR pumps are manufactured but would love to know how you would validate your information or is it just conjecture? And since you seem to know these things, where does Ecotech makes their power heads and pumps?

 

[ofzakaria]

1 of the downsides to rolling back the MP firmware is you can never update the firmware again. So if they release something that will make it function better, you will not be able to use it.

If you intend to keep the MP, leave it on Mobius. That will give you the best use out of those pumps.

Kessil will have their AP9X and their WiFi dongle be compatible with Apex shortly. I believe Sicce is almost there. There are also other manufacturers who are, either planning or have already in the works, ways to integrate their products for control with Apex.



I will not comment on where our WAV pumps and COR pumps are manufactured but would love to know how you would validate your information or is it just conjecture? And since you seem to know these things, where does Ecotech makes their power heads and pumps?

Its public knowledge. If its wrong please correct it.

Hipool Motor Co., Ltd., 8 BLDG KONDARI INDUSTRY PARK SHAJING NANHUAN RD SHENZHEN GUANGDONG CHINA | Supplier Report — Panjiva

Hipool Motor Co., Ltd. at 8 BLDG KONDARI INDUSTRY PARK SHAJING NANHUAN RD SHENZHEN GUANGDONG CHINA. Find their customers, contact information, and details on 2 shipments.

panjiva.com

 

[Vhuang168]

Its public knowledge. If its wrong please correct it.

Hipool Motor Co., Ltd., 8 BLDG KONDARI INDUSTRY PARK SHAJING NANHUAN RD SHENZHEN GUANGDONG CHINA | Supplier Report — Panjiva

Hipool Motor Co., Ltd. at 8 BLDG KONDARI INDUSTRY PARK SHAJING NANHUAN RD SHENZHEN GUANGDONG CHINA. Find their customers, contact information, and details on 2 shipments.

panjiva.com

That does show that they sell us some pumps as well as Ecotech. My issue is you bringing up the fact that the Apex pump is chinese but fail to disclose that the Ecotech one is as well. The way it reads, the Ecotech is made elsewhere and the Apex pump is chinese. Your disdain for Apex is well known but let's play fair. If the post had mentioned that the Ecotech pump is also chinese, I would have no issue with it.

Doesn't show the WAV though. But I'll drop you a hint. Look familiar? It's not made in China.

 

[ofzakaria]

That does show that they sell us some pumps as well as Ecotech. My issue is you bringing up the fact that the Apex pump is chinese but fail to disclose that the Ecotech one is as well. The way it reads, the Ecotech is made elsewhere and the Apex pump is chinese. Your disdain for Apex is well known but let's play fair.

Doesn't show the WAV though. But I'll drop you a hint. Look familiar? It's not made in China.

View attachment 23709

I talked in the context of why I think ecotech dialing back their Neptune support, is because Neptune started buying pumps and powerheads from China and compete with Echotech.

Indeed I think ecotech also build in China although I think they use different design that is bit novel to them. As an example the cordless powerhead design is very novel to them. While to me cor and wav look generic.. Thats why I think there is less field failure rate in vortech compared to wav even thu vortech is much higher volume in the market compared to wav.

I will close by saying I did not fail to disclose things, I do not have the obligation that you have as a Neptune rep. I listed some of the things that mattered to me as a customer. Hope that did not offend you or anything

 

[Vhuang168]

I talked in the context of why I think ecotech dialing back their Neptune support, is because Neptune started buying pumps and powerheads from China and compete with Echotech.

Indeed I think ecotech also build in China although I think they use different design that is bit novel to them. As an example the cordless powerhead design is very novel to them. While to me cor and wav look generic.. Thats why I think there is less field failure rate in vortech compared to wav even thu vortech is much higher volume in the market compared to wav.

I will close by saying I did not fail to disclose things, I do not have the obligation thay you have as a Neptune rep. I listed some of the things that mattered to me as a customer. Hope that did not offend you or anything

As with all things, failure rate cannot be judged based on what you see on social media. There are numerous failures on MP pumps and Vectra pumps as well. More or less than Neptune? Hard to say without being in the company and getting actual figures. What is important is how it is taken care of. I can say that we try to take care of our customers as much as we can. I know we've covered equipment that have been out of their warranty period for many customers and that includes WAVs and CORs. I've also read the same for Ecotech, their Vectra pumps overheating and burning up is 1 such example. So even if you have equipment of our's that is out of the warranty period, send us a support ticket anyway. You'll never know.

Even if I am not a Neptune rep, I will always give accurate information as much as I can. So in this case, I would have also put the fact that Ecotech also uses pumps made in China. Or omit that fact for both parties since they wash and it made no difference where 1 company gets its equipment vs the other since both came from the same county. So advantage to neither. But you made an effort to label the Neptune pumps Chinese but omit that for Ecotech.

When I'm not wearing the Neptune hat, I try and give information as fairly and as accurately as I can as it pertains to things outside of Neptune. It's not an obligation, more of a responsibility. I take responsibility for the information I put forth to be as truthful and complete as I understand it. And if I'm not sure or don't know, I make sure to note that as well. Am I always right? No. And if I'm not, I welcome the correction. But more often than not, I double check my information before posting it.

I don't take any personal offense to any criticism. You have your own opinions and that's your prerogative. But I do expect fair play. I don't appreciate mud slinging.

 

[rygh]

Just a rant on "Made in China" being a terrible metric these days.

A lot of really terrible junk is made in China.
But also a lot of high quality devices are made in China. (iPhones)

It really comes down to the specification and quality assurance.
You want cheap .... they can do that.
You want quality ... they can do that also.

If you buy from Jaebo, you know it will be as cheap as possible.
If you buy from Neptune/Ecotech, a given pump block may even be built in the same building,
but overall quality is likely better. Especially if they do their own driver electronics.

So who is better???
I bet even Neptune/Ecotech do not know.
It is no small effort to do serious testing and reverse engineering of competitors products, and little incentive to do it.

 

[ofzakaria]

Just a rant on "Made in China" being a terrible metric these days.

A lot of really terrible junk is made in China.
But also a lot of high quality devices are made in China. (iPhones)

It really comes down to the specification and quality assurance.
You want cheap .... they can do that.
You want quality ... they can do that also.

If you buy from Jaebo, you know it will be as cheap as possible.
If you buy from Neptune/Ecotech, a given pump block may even be built in the same building,
but overall quality is likely better. Especially if they do their own driver electronics.

So who is better???
I bet even Neptune/Ecotech do not know.
It is no small effort to do serious testing and reverse engineering of competitors products, and little incentive to do it.

Agreed,
In all fairness thats why I do not use either Neptune nor ecotech when it come to pumps
For power heads the metrics is rather simple, how long did the product withstand the test of time and I think its hard to argue that vortech did not stand that test.

Ofcourse you can and should judge based on reviews and actual customer feedback. Its the final and ultimate judge. This is the one unbiased metric for every product all over the world.

But totally agree everything nowadays built in China.
The trick thu is building in China vs buying complete OMD product and slap a plastic wrapper on it is different story.

You can tell if the product is customized or not rather easy.

If you go to hi pool website you can see the mockup models that they sell and u can compare similarities with products in the market.

 

[Vhuang168]

@Randyadammartin
The reason the WXM was discontinued is because Ecotech has moved on from the ReefLink interface. In fact, Patrick (of EcoTech) told an audience, during 1 of the talks he gave when Mobius was released, to take their ReefLinks and burn them. Which illustrates where their headspace is regarding that interface. So seeing as that is a dead end, the decision was made to discontinue the WXM.

Whether the decision not to allow us access to Vectra control and the limitations they put on the chip that they sell us for the WXM is due to the fact that we also sell powerheads and return pumps, that is something you will have to ask EcoTech. I don't know the answer to that.

So, if integrating into Apex is something you are looking for. The MP is not the answer. If you like the form factor and what it gives you, keep it on Mobius.