Fish not doing well - Bad RODI water quality?

[spuri87]

That is a great attitude.

Yet, I would practice learning how to effectively quarantine with fewer ‘healthy’ fish vs your entire possibly sick fish population.

It is a nuanced process that if not done properly is a waste of time.

We do not need to do everything in this hobby ourselves (that's what steakhouse vouchers are for), but it is great for those who want to learn but I suggest to not do this in times of crisis when lives are at stake.

Thanks Alexander.. I read up a lot about QT processes in the month when I was waiting for the tank.. Of all the fish I got from the tank breakdown, I got my yellow damsel at home and tried HTTM to gain some confidence.. Fish never started eating.. maybe it was already sick when I got it home, maybe I did something wrong that caused this to happen.. Not sure.. I bought CopperPower in case of an emergency, but I am not yet comfortable after my 1st failure at QT, even if it wasnt my fault.. I requested Ed to rehome the fish at his store, hoping it would start eating in a community tank..

This is a beautiful hobby with a new challenge everyday, not to mention a great community of people.. So excited to be part of this group and looking forward to chat with few of you at the frag swap!

 

[spuri87]

If you drop Prozi make sure you aerate the water like crazy. Prozi removes oxygen from the water

thank you for the tip.. yes, I read R2Rs guide on how to use Prazi, I feel I have enough aeration in the tank with return pump heads pointing towards the surface of the water, but LMK if you think otherwise:

 

[spuri87]

thanks @PjFish for your comments.. Yes, thats a huge possibility that the fish already had something when I got them, since I did see some symptoms when I visited them during the fish-sitting period.. Yes, I read and tried the HTTM method with H2O2, but wasnt 100% successful on a lemon damsel, hence do not want to try it on any other fish just yet... I do plan to send water for an ICP test after this ordeal!

 

[MichaelB]

Honestly if the prazi doesn't work in a day. You are at risk of loosing all of your fish. The number of fish your talking about trying to treat is well above the skill and ability of most here that have qt fish.

It would cost money of course but the best thing you could possibly do for the fish is to just pay Kenny at high tide to qt them for you.

I would also point out better to reach out to see if that option is still on the table. Best not to wait until fish start dying and they are to the point that they can't be saved.

The fish you have didn't aks to be placed in your care. Please don't be offended by my stern comment here. Yet Highly put off by your recent statement on using this as a opportunity to learn. Getting a single fish to try qt would be a fair statement. Watching you Playing your.hand at qt with that many fish when your very new to the hobby is sad as I don't think you will be successful.

Having a few small tanks aren't sufficient. Each tang would need at least 40 gallons. Stuffing almost 20 fish into small tanks is meh.

I believe that even many experienced members here would hesitate to attempt a novice diy attempt soely based on information gathered from random online sources or delay hoping for the best thinking things can get better or just go away as it seems your doing. The truth is things will likely only get worse not better without approiate action and proper treatment.

There is a huge difference in reading a online article and having actual experience here. I wouldn't even consider trying to do what you are. Even a step further I wouldn't have added that many fish to a brand new system especially considering the types of fish involved.

* don't take it personally here, but in the future best to ask here before making addtions to the tank or taking drastic actions. There is alot of experience here that would save you from potential headaces or stress. We're a great club and look out for each other. I want you to be successful here.

My recommendation for the health of the fish is to go to the qt professional.

 

[Turkeysammich]

Honestly if the prazi doesn't work in a day. You are at risk of loosing all of your fish. The number of fish your talking about trying to treat is well above the skill and ability of most here that have qt fish.

It would cost money of course but the best thing you could possibly do for the fish is to just pay Kenny at high tide to qt them for you.

I would also point out better to reach out to see if that option is still on the table. Best not to wait until fish start dying and they are to the point that they can't be saved.

The fish you have didn't aks to be placed in your care. Please don't be offended by my stern comment here. Yet Highly put off by your recent statement on using this as a opportunity to learn. Getting a single fish to try qt would be a fair statement. Playing with that many fish when your very new ti the hobby and clearly even many experienced members here would hesitate to attempt a novice diy attempt soely based on information gathered from random online sources or delay and hope for the best as it seems your doing.

There is a huge difference in reading a online article and having actual experience here. I wouldn't even consider trying to do what you are. Even a step further I wouldn't have added that many fish to a brand new system especially considering the types of fish involved.

* don't take it personally here, but in the future best to ask here before making addtions to the tank or taking drastic actions. There is alot of experience here that would save you from potential headacesnor stress. We're a great club and look out for each other.

My recommendation for the health of the fish is to go to the qt professional.

You sound like Erin.

 

[MichaelB]

You sound like Erin.

Not intending to, yet he hasn't been in the hobby even 3 months yet. I would say current situation is beyond his ability. He's a very nice gentleman I've meet on a few occasions.

 

[spuri87]

Thanks @MichaelB for the concern.. I dont think we are at that stage yet where ALL fish needs to be Quarantined.. Please check the video above, all fish including PBT are eating and swimming well.. I have been talking to many people about what the issue is, and consensus is it is mucus cones, it may also be flukes, but if you talk to GPT / Google Scholars pages / R2R forums, you will note that flukes in most cases are not noticeable on this fish, hence there is no conclusive way of saying this is flukes.. Based off my research and talking to individuals, LFS owners and vets online and in person, mucus cones happen due to some stressor in the fish tank and comes and goes as and when water that stressor appears and goes away.. More the reason I wanted to understand the water quality and if that is causing any stress to the fish (hence the subject of this thread).. I know you have mentioned its some sort of ich in couple of your messages, but its likely not.. I think someone posted pics differentiating the size of ich and what I see on my PBT.. its very close to what we see in this similar post on R2R: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/mucus-plugs.1129758/

I wont risk losing any of my fish, forget all my fish! But I genuinely feel we dont need to QT all my fish at this point since they all look like a happy bunch (except PBT who is not at 100% but maybe at 70%, definitely infected with something).. also, Blue tang's sore eye is gone today.. If Prazipro doesnt work, I plan to move PBT and Hippo tang out and treat them in a Hospital tank.. Yes, I know if its ich its likely there in the tank and I would need to go fallow for over 2 months to ensure its disease free, but again, honestly dont think its ich.. But I would like to do things as much by myself as I can, learning along the way (online and from this group), coz I cant imagine keeping my tank disease free forever and running to LFS to QT all my fish every year is just not long term feasible.. Again, I care about lives in general, and when I say I want to learn, its not at the cost of putting any life at risk, be it be a fish, but just to grow myself as a better caretaker for these little animals.

 

[spuri87]

Not intending to, yet he hasn't been in the hobby even 3 months yet. I would say current situation is beyond his ability. He's a very nice gentleman I've meet on a few occasions.

You have been super helpful since day 1 and I appreciate all you have done for me @MichaelB .. Lent your 55g barrel to me while I was setting up my RODI, donated a 10g breeder tank to help me Quarantine, and then recently helped me with RODI water to help me fill my ATO with 0 TDS water whilst I waited for my RO buddie filters.. I have always seen you helping others on the forum and offfering things to anyone in need.. Truly a great member of this community!

 

[Alexander1312]

Thanks @MichaelB for the concern.. I dont think we are at that stage yet where ALL fish needs to be Quarantined.. Please check the video above, all fish including PBT are eating and swimming well.. I have been talking to many people about what the issue is, and consensus is it is mucus cones, it may also be flukes, but if you talk to GPT / Google Scholars pages / R2R forums, you will note that flukes in most cases are not noticeable on this fish, hence there is no conclusive way of saying this is flukes.. Based off my research and talking to individuals, LFS owners and vets online and in person, mucus cones happen due to some stressor in the fish tank and comes and goes as and when water that stressor appears and goes away.. More the reason I wanted to understand the water quality and if that is causing any stress to the fish (hence the subject of this thread).. I know you have mentioned its some sort of ich in couple of your messages, but its likely not.. I think someone posted pics differentiating the size of ich and what I see on my PBT.. its very close to what we see in this similar post on R2R: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/mucus-plugs.1129758/

I wont risk losing any of my fish, forget all my fish! But I genuinely feel we dont need to QT all my fish at this point since they all look like a happy bunch (except PBT who is not at 100% but maybe at 70%, definitely infected with something).. also, Blue tang's sore eye is gone today.. If Prazipro doesnt work, I plan to move PBT and Hippo tang out and treat them in a Hospital tank.. Yes, I know if its ich its likely there in the tank and I would need to go fallow for over 2 months to ensure its disease free, but again, honestly dont think its ich.. But I would like to do things as much by myself as I can, learning along the way (online and from this group), coz I cant imagine keeping my tank disease free forever and running to LFS to QT all my fish every year is just not long term feasible.. Again, I care about lives in general, and when I say I want to learn, its not at the cost of putting any life at risk, be it be a fish, but just to grow myself as a better caretaker for these little animals.

You are the CEO of your tank. We are just an advisory group. If you feel comfortable with the data you have to make informed decisions on what is best for your situation, then I would go ahead and be ok with the outcome it delivers. Hope all goes well!

 

[spuri87]

Watching you Playing your.hand at qt with that many fish when your very new to the hobby is sad as I don't think you will be successful.

btw Michael, I think you might have misread my messages.. I never said I will ever QT these many fish by myself, in fact I said the opposite.. "I got 3-4 small tanks in the garage, but no way I can ensure that all these fish will be healthy for a lengthy period of a time in a smaller system, given no experience with QT systems" And I completely agree with you that its beyond someone not working full time at a LFS, someone like Kenny.

 

[Kensington Reefer]

Saw the video…
Fish swimming normally
I definitely would not have put 3 yellow tangs in there, but….
Feed lots
Change lots of water
Feed copious amounts of high quality food
Keep a clean environment
Keep us posted
Positive vibrations

 

[MichaelB]

btw Michael, I think you might have misread my messages.. I never said I will ever QT these many fish by myself, in fact I said the opposite.. "I got 3-4 small tanks in the garage, but no way I can ensure that all these fish will be healthy for a lengthy period of a time in a smaller system, given no experience with QT systems" And I completely agree with you that its beyond someone not working full time at a LFS, someone like Kenny.

I was reading your post at work while cleaning and putting dry rub on 80lbs of brisket so I may have missed that. You had me worried mentioning 4 small tanks lol. Of course I never claim to be any expert here many that posted here have way more experience than myself. So take my comments only as my thoughts/opinion, not anything like you better/ have to do this.

I've lost 3 tanks full of fish 2 from parasites velvet/ick, one from a likely ammonia spike. It really sucks speaking first hand. So I'm speaking from that view point of keep a close eye on things if ur intended treatment doesn't work be ready to take appropriate action.

I hope everything works out for you. Looking forward to seeing you at the swap.

 

[PjFish]

thanks @PjFish for your comments.. Yes, thats a huge possibility that the fish already had something when I got them, since I did see some symptoms when I visited them during the fish-sitting period.. Yes, I read and tried the HTTM method with H2O2, but wasnt 100% successful on a lemon damsel, hence do not want to try it on any other fish just yet... I do plan to send water for an ICP test after this ordeal!

Spent a few hours on humble fish reading about all the HTTM-TTM etc the hydrogen peroxide dipping is an interesting experiment which appeared to have more failure rate than success but not sure if I read the most up to date experiments. Plus dipping with all the other drugs gota be super precise..Definitely a rabbit hole to say the least!
Anyway how are your tank parameters have the numbers come down and stabilized? Ammonia?
Forgot if your running a UV or not but not a bad choice in this scenario or long term like many of us BAR members do..

 

[PjFish]

Oh the Aquaboimics is water DNA which tests for parasite infestations among other biological growths which may tell you the need for fallow or not way different than an ICP tests.
Also some people add acclimated black Mollys to their tanks since if theres anything there Molly's are one of the first to show symptoms easily..

 

[spuri87]

Anyway how are your tank parameters have the numbers come down and stabilized? Ammonia?

I shared this yesterday:

Alk - 6.4
ph - 7.8
nitrates - 15
phosphates - 0.6
Salinity - 1.025
temp - 78
Ammonia, Nitrites - 0

Spent a few hours on humble fish reading about all the HTTM-TTM etc the hydrogen peroxide dipping is an interesting experiment which appeared to have more failure rate than success but not sure if I read the most up to date experiments. Plus dipping with all the other drugs gota be super precise..Definitely a rabbit hole to say the least!

Yeah I liked it better than Copper specially for the new fish, not necessarily for a sick fish in your DT, since in that case the entire tank likely is infested and needs to be fish-less for 72 days IIRC.. H2O2 is easy to find at local stores and precision isnt an issue if you are being careful.. I have talked to a lot of folks online who had great success doing HTTM and would swear by it.. But anyways, like I said, its something while adding a new fish to the tank, so wont try it with my tank tight now.

Forgot if your running a UV or not but not a bad choice in this scenario or long term like many of us BAR members do..

Not right now, I was thinking Ozone for water quality long term, but then learnt that it can cause cancer.. Started using Carbon Rox 0.8, but let me read more about UV, heard good things about it.. Thanks for the tip

Oh the Aquaboimics is water DNA which tests for parasite infestations among other biological growths which may tell you the need for fallow or not way different than an ICP tests.

aah I see, let me lookup that.. thanks again!

 

[Kensington Reefer]

pH is too low

 

[spuri87]

pH is too low

yeah I added "Maybe low alk and ph are also the stressing factors? I will be adding some Baking soda to help increase alk to around 8-9 followed by adding Prazipro to the DT.. will keep the thread updated"..

I did add Baking soda in very small quantity yesterday, will re-test today.. I know baking soda may help alk more than ph, but re-testing will reveal what's going on

 

[spuri87]

and oh, Ed's team did add Kalkwasser initially when we saw it was too low, but that apparently didnt do much.. Looking into BRS soda ash too along with other options

 

[Kensington Reefer]

Salinity, pH and temp
These parameters are paramount
New water should be IDEAL
If you’re mixing water, do it days before you need to use it

 

[spuri87]

thanks @Kensington Reefer ..

If you’re mixing water, do it days before you need to use it

I mix salt a day before I use it, let it sit in barrell for mixing with a heater overnight and use it next morning.. is that sufficient or there is some extra benefit of doing it days before I need it?