@spuri87 is the fish scratching on the sand? I think that's one dead giveaway for flukes right @SupraSaltyReefer ?
Fish not doing well - Bad RODI water quality?
- Thread starter spuri87
- Start date
Coral reefer
Past President
I always associated flukes with gills and eyes. Are there multiple types?
230 gallons
Thanks @Turkeysammich and @SupraSaltyReefer I did check with all available AI agents as well as folks on R2R.. My PBT has a similar but a little less sever case than this one here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/mucus-plugs.1129758/
This is not flukes/ich/velvet otherwise:
1. Fish would have stopped eating by now (its 2nd time in 7 days for PBT and a few spots on Hippo tang for same duration).
2. Would have likely spread to other fish in the tank by now.
3. Would not have disappeared for 5 days on PBT and then re-appeared.
Yes both the tangs are scratching against the rocks, Hippo way more than PBT, but that alone doesnt conclusively say its any of the 4 diseases we are discussing here.
Again, I am not even at an intermediate step, forget expert, but when I search for mucus plugs (mucus cocoons are something totally different, when I just searched for it) on R2R, there are bunch of posts that come up and my fish has exactly same symptoms..
This was my thread on R2R: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/is-this-ich-on-my-pbt.1133458/ when I first saw these spots on PBT, the number of these are way higher this time round though!
I added 20 ml Prime to the tank.. Will keep the thread updated! Love how everyone shares the knowledge here! Thanks a ton, everyone!
Kensington Reefer
Supporting Member
As long as they eat, there is hope for recovery
Good luck to the fish and you
Good luck to the fish and you
I wouldn't rule out possibly ich. Just the fact these things are magnets for it. They drop off the fish and come back worse or lesss- I think it's part of their life cycle.
I would only say it's not velvet that can wipe out the entire tank in 24hrs or less.
Fish can still eat and have ich. It's when it gets really really bad they slow down eating.
I would only say it's not velvet that can wipe out the entire tank in 24hrs or less.
Fish can still eat and have ich. It's when it gets really really bad they slow down eating.
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Coral reefer
Past President
I don’t agree with several of your assumptions. No time right now. I think it is likely parasites of some sort. They tend to come and go. Those two fish are certainly mist susceptible. Weren’t they in a system with disease/parasites previously?
SupraSaltyReefer
Supporting Member
1. Fish absolutely still eat when they have ich. If their own immune system is strong enough they can fight it off naturally. However, ich will always be present in your tank and fish in a dormant state, unless you go fallow and quarantine the fish.
2. Some fish have a thicker slime coat so that is why ich may not show on all fish in the tank. Acanthurus tangs especially Achilles and PBT are known to have a super thin slime coat. Just because they don't show external visible symptoms doesn't meant they don't have it internally.
3. Ich could've been in the Tomont stage and PBT was fighting it off, but it relapsed.
To rule out flukes you can do a freshwater dip and see if any fall off.
Scratching on sand and rocks aka "Flashing" can be seen in cases of ich, velvet or flukes.
Yeah flukes can get in the gills and eyes too. Different types. Theres even different strains of marine ich.
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I was actually thinking a lot of times we think in a singular way, we actually should be thinking in a multiple way. IE: ick and stress thus slime coat compromised or flukes and bad water makes slime coat ball up. Just throwing thoughts out there.
Like when I get sick. It’s usually not a cold at first. It’s usually I’m run down, allergies then a cold.
Like when I get sick. It’s usually not a cold at first. It’s usually I’m run down, allergies then a cold.
Kensington Reefer
Supporting Member
Nutrition..
Water quality
Changing water will also remove some of the swimming life stage of the parasite
Assuming new water is IDEAL (proper pH, salinity, temp) you cannot do them too often or too large
Water quality
Changing water will also remove some of the swimming life stage of the parasite
Assuming new water is IDEAL (proper pH, salinity, temp) you cannot do them too often or too large
Err.. didnt get any emails from BAR so didnt check the thread.. thank you all for your comments, very valuable.. The PBT was laying down on the side last night and going close to the wavemaker to help with the irritation.. but has been swimming and eating since morning.. I added nori to the clip and it is eating well (showing less interest in flakes and pellets though).. Blue tang meanwhile got a sore/cloudy eye.. And I see some spots on yellow too (attaching the pics).. I maybe wrong and it maybe more than just mucus cones, but I couldnt sleep last night thinking how can I treat all these fish at the same time.. I want to give PBT a freshwater bath to check for flukes, but catching it is going to be very challenging.. As one last resort, I am getting Prazipro today and will add it to the main DT as per the dosage.. Hope it helps with some of this stuff on the fish.. God, I feel so responsible for these little lives! I hope everything turns out ok
Attachments
Thanks to @MichaelB for helping me with 30g RODI water yesterday, I added 10g to my ATO and use 20g for water change..
I tested my water params today:
Alk - 6.4
ph - 7.8
nitrates - 15
phosphates - 0.6
Salinity - 1.025
temp - 78
Ammonia, Nitrites - 0
Maybe low alk and ph are also the stressing factors? I will be adding some Baking soda to help increase alk to around 8-9 followed by adding Prazipro to the DT.. will keep the thread updated
I tested my water params today:
Alk - 6.4
ph - 7.8
nitrates - 15
phosphates - 0.6
Salinity - 1.025
temp - 78
Ammonia, Nitrites - 0
Maybe low alk and ph are also the stressing factors? I will be adding some Baking soda to help increase alk to around 8-9 followed by adding Prazipro to the DT.. will keep the thread updated
Worry about the fish first I would ignore the water parameters for now as long as salinity and temperature checks out.
I strongly think it's some type of ick but I'm no expert.
Kensington Reefer
Supporting Member
You care!!
And you’re a member of this club
We’ll help you over the hump
Hopefully these fish will make it, if not, we’ll direct you towards new ones
I was actually looking to buy Lipo Garlic.. is Selcon preferred.. what are other folks using?
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
If I was you, I would ask Kenny @under_water_ninja if he can quarantine your fish for you. He does this for a fee which is well worth it.
You still need to figure out what to do with the tank, but at least you have one less factor to worry about. We can advise in the meantime while your fish are recovering.
You can catch them in your tank with two nets.
There is too much complexity IMO.
You still need to figure out what to do with the tank, but at least you have one less factor to worry about. We can advise in the meantime while your fish are recovering.
You can catch them in your tank with two nets.
There is too much complexity IMO.
PjFish
Supporting Member
Just thinking about your timeline!
Oct 3rd or 4th LFS added Lanthanum Chloride in controlled manner to counter high phosphates (around 0.45) in the system, during the cycling phase, a week before adding the fish.. Even after adding Lanthanum, the phosphates stayed high,
You added fish below on the 11th or 12th that you bought previously from Facebook Marketplace which were sitting in an LF tank for a while until your tank was cycled . Dirty water/grunge/ live sand from LF added to help seed bacteria…Guessing the 3 yellow tangs came from the LF Did you visit the LF checking on the condition of fish during their stay any observations and were they all in their own tank with separate filtration away from the other LF tanks?
Three of the fish died at the LF any ideas?
Added 11th or 12th
5x Green Chromis
3x Yellow Tang
3x pajama cardinals
1x power blue tang
1x hippo tang
1x convict tang
1x lawnmower blenny
October 15 added two designer clowns from BAR member who imports them from a breeding facility..
The 19th white spots on Powder Blue via your post on R2R which a few heavy hitters said possible mucus cones? Which currently now they are hinting it maybe parasites
With a brand new barely cycled tank thats alot going on especially with the volume of live stock added all at once..
Dosing LaCl during cycling with no fish is interesting which thinking your live rocks may be leaching phosphates which is totally normal.. Why we soak for months ahead to reduce phosphates and other things that leach out.
With so many factors the fish could have already sick before you added them or from other fish being introduced which is a high probability..Parasites can take 4 to a few weeks to really show up..Some fish can be carriers with hardly no symptoms then when stressed can have an outbreak ( some agree some don’t) Parasites could have been added during cycling and just waiting for fish.. Was really hoping they were mucus cones but have never seen them before despite having the same tangs as you for a while now..Theres the TTM tank transfer method to get rid of ich but you need multiple small tanks/ buckets..
PraziPro reduces the oxygen in the tank so make sure your power heads are pointed up stirring the surface the water or use air stone..
Take out the carbon and turn off uv..Some people take the skimmer cap off to help oxygenate. Sorry your dealing the hard way at the get go but nothing happens quick in this hobby and certainly no competitions.
Can always send a water sample to Aquabiomics for a tank DNA test which will tell you exactly what parasites and other harmful things in the water. Stay positive most of the people in the hobby have experienced the same issues your going through
Good luck!
aquabiomics.com
Oct 3rd or 4th LFS added Lanthanum Chloride in controlled manner to counter high phosphates (around 0.45) in the system, during the cycling phase, a week before adding the fish.. Even after adding Lanthanum, the phosphates stayed high,
You added fish below on the 11th or 12th that you bought previously from Facebook Marketplace which were sitting in an LF tank for a while until your tank was cycled . Dirty water/grunge/ live sand from LF added to help seed bacteria…Guessing the 3 yellow tangs came from the LF Did you visit the LF checking on the condition of fish during their stay any observations and were they all in their own tank with separate filtration away from the other LF tanks?
Three of the fish died at the LF any ideas?
Added 11th or 12th
5x Green Chromis
3x Yellow Tang
3x pajama cardinals
1x power blue tang
1x hippo tang
1x convict tang
1x lawnmower blenny
October 15 added two designer clowns from BAR member who imports them from a breeding facility..
The 19th white spots on Powder Blue via your post on R2R which a few heavy hitters said possible mucus cones? Which currently now they are hinting it maybe parasites
With a brand new barely cycled tank thats alot going on especially with the volume of live stock added all at once..
Dosing LaCl during cycling with no fish is interesting which thinking your live rocks may be leaching phosphates which is totally normal.. Why we soak for months ahead to reduce phosphates and other things that leach out.
With so many factors the fish could have already sick before you added them or from other fish being introduced which is a high probability..Parasites can take 4 to a few weeks to really show up..Some fish can be carriers with hardly no symptoms then when stressed can have an outbreak ( some agree some don’t) Parasites could have been added during cycling and just waiting for fish.. Was really hoping they were mucus cones but have never seen them before despite having the same tangs as you for a while now..Theres the TTM tank transfer method to get rid of ich but you need multiple small tanks/ buckets..
PraziPro reduces the oxygen in the tank so make sure your power heads are pointed up stirring the surface the water or use air stone..
Take out the carbon and turn off uv..Some people take the skimmer cap off to help oxygenate. Sorry your dealing the hard way at the get go but nothing happens quick in this hobby and certainly no competitions.
Can always send a water sample to Aquabiomics for a tank DNA test which will tell you exactly what parasites and other harmful things in the water. Stay positive most of the people in the hobby have experienced the same issues your going through
Good luck!
Order Page – AquaBiomics
aquabiomics.com
I contemplated about doing this honestly.. but if I don’t do this myself, I will never learn! I need to understand what’s going on and hopefully sort this out.. if I were to take everything out, I will probably have to QT them elsewhere.. I got 3-4 small tanks in the garage, but no way I can ensure that all these fish will be healthy for a lengthy period of a time in a smaller system, given no experience with QT systems.. Anyways, 1 small step at a time
Will add Prazipro today and see if that helps over the next week!
If you drop Prozi make sure you aerate the water like crazy. Prozi removes oxygen from the waterI contemplated about doing this honestly.. but if I don’t do this myself, I will never learn! I need to understand what’s going on and hopefully sort this out.. if I were to take everything out, I will probably have to QT them elsewhere.. I got 3-4 small tanks in the garage, but no way I can ensure that all these fish will be healthy for a lengthy period of a time in a smaller system, given no experience with QT systems.. Anyways, 1 small step at a time
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
That is a great attitude.I contemplated about doing this honestly.. but if I don’t do this myself, I will never learn! I need to understand what’s going on and hopefully sort this out.. if I were to take everything out, I will probably have to QT them elsewhere.. I got 3-4 small tanks in the garage, but no way I can ensure that all these fish will be healthy for a lengthy period of a time in a smaller system, given no experience with QT systems.. Anyways, 1 small step at a time
Yet, I would practice learning how to effectively quarantine with fewer ‘healthy’ fish vs your entire possibly sick fish population.
It is a nuanced process that if not done properly is a waste of time.
We do not need to do everything in this hobby ourselves (that's what steakhouse vouchers are for), but it is great for those who want to learn but I suggest to not do this in times of crisis when lives are at stake.