Frag dipping regimen
- Thread starter Thales
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I put all the corals in a 2 gal bucket with small powerhead and heater and add ReefDip until the water turns yellow. I let them go for 15 mins, then I add Interceptor. Usually higher than the normal amount. Then I wait for 3~5 hours.
Before I mount the frags and put them into the tank, I swish them in some tank water to wash off the meds. I didn't swish the corals in some clean water one time and my emeral crab didn't like that very much at all :lol:
Before I mount the frags and put them into the tank, I swish them in some tank water to wash off the meds. I didn't swish the corals in some clean water one time and my emeral crab didn't like that very much at all :lol:
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Out of curiosity what concentration is Lugols compared to some "generic" iodine like Kents or whatever?
G
GreshamH
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sfsuphysics said:
Lugol's isn't straight Iodine, that's the difference.
Me, I put the bag in the microwave on 50% for 30 seconds. I then rotate and repeat
Nah, I use a heavy Lugol's dip for lilke 10 minutes...shake...rinse.....place into tank. I'm now using the TMCC and it seems to be pretty good. Easy to measure that's for sure, well, if my top wasn't broken it would be easy. Rich's was easy to use
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actually same question as sfsuphysics, i have been using the kent 'tech-1' iodine/k-iodide in distilled water.. seems like the same stuff as in the lugol's just the lugols is at a higher concentration. wondering if anyone knows of the difference, as i have a bottle of the tech-1 that i don't use for much else so i'd like to use instead of lugols if possible.
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Kent Tech iodine has other stuff in there to maintain a suitable iodine level in the system over a period of time for "better" coral health. I don't think it was meant to be used as a dip.
Lugol's solution is 5% Iodine in 10% potassium iodide solution. The iodine is the disinfectant part that kills bacteria and pests. It's similar to chlorine in how it oxidizes stuff.
If you don't have Lugol's, you can use Tincture of Iodine, which is typically 2-3% iodine in alcohol... and sometimes some iodide as well. When using tincture, you use 2x as much. For dip purposes, the alcohol should not be a problem.
You can use iodine/saltwater dip as a general purpose coral dip. Reeffarmers recommends, "20 minutes in 1 liter of 100 % captive reef water that has 10 drops of 5 % lugols solution (or 20 drops of the tincture of iodine found at local drug stores which is typically a 2.2 % solution)."
http://www.reeffarmers.com/acclimation.htm
If you are treating for zoanthid eating nudibranchs, you use iodine/freshwater dip. I use about 10 drops tincture per gallon of pH and temp adjusted DI freshwater for 5 minutes. The freshwater kills the nudibranchs, and the iodine helps kills off the bacteria that might affect your zoas after the stress of the freshwater exposure. I've even used iodine/tapwater for zoa nudi dip.
Some people use iodine/freshwater dip for montipora eating nudibranchs. Montipora is less able to take the fw compared to zoas. Recommended dip time is no more than 30-45 seconds. At that, the montipora will be severely stressed, and will slime and slough. Much longer than 45 seconds, and you have a good chance of killing your coral. I've heard of people who killed their monti caps from 1 minute freshwater dips. I don't like iodine/fw much for monti nudis. If you dip short enough to keep your coral alive, the nudis seem barely affected.
If I get new zoas, I do iodine/sw... especially if it looks like there's deterioration or decay. If it's a large wild colony, I lean towards fragging it to make it easier to spot pests, and to limit losses should there be any decay that spreads.
I only do iodine/fw for zoa nudis, and luckily I've not had to dip my own zoas.
Careful of doing fw and no iodine on zoas. I think the fw further stresses the zoa, and the lack of iodine can allow bacteria to multiply and kill your coral.
(Not iodine, but if you have fungus-ey zoas, one recommended treatment is peroxide/freshwater.)
Anyway, that's what I've been doing. I'm sure other people have their own routines.
Lugol's solution is 5% Iodine in 10% potassium iodide solution. The iodine is the disinfectant part that kills bacteria and pests. It's similar to chlorine in how it oxidizes stuff.
If you don't have Lugol's, you can use Tincture of Iodine, which is typically 2-3% iodine in alcohol... and sometimes some iodide as well. When using tincture, you use 2x as much. For dip purposes, the alcohol should not be a problem.
You can use iodine/saltwater dip as a general purpose coral dip. Reeffarmers recommends, "20 minutes in 1 liter of 100 % captive reef water that has 10 drops of 5 % lugols solution (or 20 drops of the tincture of iodine found at local drug stores which is typically a 2.2 % solution)."
http://www.reeffarmers.com/acclimation.htm
If you are treating for zoanthid eating nudibranchs, you use iodine/freshwater dip. I use about 10 drops tincture per gallon of pH and temp adjusted DI freshwater for 5 minutes. The freshwater kills the nudibranchs, and the iodine helps kills off the bacteria that might affect your zoas after the stress of the freshwater exposure. I've even used iodine/tapwater for zoa nudi dip.
Some people use iodine/freshwater dip for montipora eating nudibranchs. Montipora is less able to take the fw compared to zoas. Recommended dip time is no more than 30-45 seconds. At that, the montipora will be severely stressed, and will slime and slough. Much longer than 45 seconds, and you have a good chance of killing your coral. I've heard of people who killed their monti caps from 1 minute freshwater dips. I don't like iodine/fw much for monti nudis. If you dip short enough to keep your coral alive, the nudis seem barely affected.
If I get new zoas, I do iodine/sw... especially if it looks like there's deterioration or decay. If it's a large wild colony, I lean towards fragging it to make it easier to spot pests, and to limit losses should there be any decay that spreads.
I only do iodine/fw for zoa nudis, and luckily I've not had to dip my own zoas.
Careful of doing fw and no iodine on zoas. I think the fw further stresses the zoa, and the lack of iodine can allow bacteria to multiply and kill your coral.
(Not iodine, but if you have fungus-ey zoas, one recommended treatment is peroxide/freshwater.)
Anyway, that's what I've been doing. I'm sure other people have their own routines.
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thanks mr. ugly.. wondered about when to do fresh/iodine versus salt/iodine as well as the diff between lugols and tech-1, though the tech-1 seems to be working for me.
and yeah, i think you are right about the montis not taking freshwater dips very well, i got a orange monti frag from the BAR swap in february that RTN'ed after my dipping for just a minute.
and yeah, i think you are right about the montis not taking freshwater dips very well, i got a orange monti frag from the BAR swap in february that RTN'ed after my dipping for just a minute.
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I agree with Mr. Ugly.... But I do a lugol dip. 40 drops per gallon for 10 minutes with a pretty hard shake in the water for every 5 minutes. Then a ro/do shake after right before going into the tank.
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Lately, I've been using Povidone for dipping. It's the generic for Betadine, and based on their vague product descriptions, I believe that TMPCC and others may be just repackaged Povidone or something very similar.
Povidone iodine is a slow release iodine that is less stressful to corals compared to Lugol's and tinctures. Iodine requires extended contact time to work, so the slow release method is better.
Povidone acts as a surfactant and wetting agent in addition to carrying iodine. Also, Povidone increases the penetration of the iodine through cell walls.
In Europe, people pioneered using Betadine to kill AEFW. Dip formulation was 3ml Betadine per liter of tank water. Some reports say that after 20 minutes, the flatworms are stunned and motionless. After 25 minutes, they disintegrate.
Studies show that Povidone iodine solution at .1% by weight of P-I has the greatest concentration of free iodine and the greatest microbicidal effects. Free iodine decreases with higher as well as lower concentrations of P-I.
1 ml of 10% Povidone in 100 ml of tank water will give ~.1% P-I solution.
Based on manufacturers information, it looks like P-I solutions in the range of .05-.15% give about the same level of free iodine. This would correspond to a dip formulation of .5 - 1.5 ml per 100ml of tank water.
I've been using P-I at a rate of 1ml per cup(250ml) of tank water. I'm going to revise my dipping formula to 2ml/C. Easy to measure, and that gives a P-I concentration of .08% which just about maxes out the free iodine concentration.
Here's some really good info on mode of action of P-I(check out the charts):
http://www.ispcorp.com/products/pharma/content/brochure/pvpiodine/mode.html
And the main info page for that product:
http://www.ispcorp.com/products/pharma/content/brochure/pvpiodine/
And the Wiki entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Povidone
Oh yah... you can buy Povidone online for less than $4 for 16 ounces. Even at Walgreens, it's only about $10 for 8oz when it's not on sale. Way cheaper than TMPCC and others.
Povidone iodine is a slow release iodine that is less stressful to corals compared to Lugol's and tinctures. Iodine requires extended contact time to work, so the slow release method is better.
Povidone acts as a surfactant and wetting agent in addition to carrying iodine. Also, Povidone increases the penetration of the iodine through cell walls.
In Europe, people pioneered using Betadine to kill AEFW. Dip formulation was 3ml Betadine per liter of tank water. Some reports say that after 20 minutes, the flatworms are stunned and motionless. After 25 minutes, they disintegrate.
Studies show that Povidone iodine solution at .1% by weight of P-I has the greatest concentration of free iodine and the greatest microbicidal effects. Free iodine decreases with higher as well as lower concentrations of P-I.
1 ml of 10% Povidone in 100 ml of tank water will give ~.1% P-I solution.
Based on manufacturers information, it looks like P-I solutions in the range of .05-.15% give about the same level of free iodine. This would correspond to a dip formulation of .5 - 1.5 ml per 100ml of tank water.
I've been using P-I at a rate of 1ml per cup(250ml) of tank water. I'm going to revise my dipping formula to 2ml/C. Easy to measure, and that gives a P-I concentration of .08% which just about maxes out the free iodine concentration.
Here's some really good info on mode of action of P-I(check out the charts):
http://www.ispcorp.com/products/pharma/content/brochure/pvpiodine/mode.html
And the main info page for that product:
http://www.ispcorp.com/products/pharma/content/brochure/pvpiodine/
And the Wiki entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Povidone
Oh yah... you can buy Povidone online for less than $4 for 16 ounces. Even at Walgreens, it's only about $10 for 8oz when it's not on sale. Way cheaper than TMPCC and others.
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Ok... some updated info.
I've been using 2ml of 10% Povidone per 8oz of saltwater for dipping. Zoas, acros, montis, calaustrea, favia... 20-25 minutes, no problem.
The corals come out of the dips looking like they don't know the meaning of the word "stress"
I've been using 2ml of 10% Povidone per 8oz of saltwater for dipping. Zoas, acros, montis, calaustrea, favia... 20-25 minutes, no problem.
The corals come out of the dips looking like they don't know the meaning of the word "stress"
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[quote author=bookfish link=topic=451.msg15363#msg15363 date=1170310262]
Norm, could you type up a quickie dip sheet for handing out at the swap? Give me a call if you want, I'm up late tonight.
[/quote]
That would be a great thing to post on the board too.
Norm, could you type up a quickie dip sheet for handing out at the swap? Give me a call if you want, I'm up late tonight.
[/quote]
That would be a great thing to post on the board too.
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Btw,
I was just talking to someone earlier this evening. They are doing really well with Povidone for incoming coral shipments.
They put up a cheat sheet for reference covering iodine, peroxide, freshwater, etc for the different corals.
They did find that 2ml Povidone in 1 liter of sw knocks monti nudis on their butts. They went with less than the 2ml per 8oz because repeated dips to treat nudis caused some of the montis to lose color.
Another interesting thing is that they run constant Interceptor in their holding tanks. And throw in a tablet every 3rd water change to keep the levels up.
They siphon the sumps regularly so that the dead arthropods don't spike the NO3/NH3.
I was just talking to someone earlier this evening. They are doing really well with Povidone for incoming coral shipments.
They put up a cheat sheet for reference covering iodine, peroxide, freshwater, etc for the different corals.
They did find that 2ml Povidone in 1 liter of sw knocks monti nudis on their butts. They went with less than the 2ml per 8oz because repeated dips to treat nudis caused some of the montis to lose color.
Another interesting thing is that they run constant Interceptor in their holding tanks. And throw in a tablet every 3rd water change to keep the levels up.
They siphon the sumps regularly so that the dead arthropods don't spike the NO3/NH3.
