Help diagnose my tank!

[Solitaryensis]

Hi Everyone:

Getting pretty frustrated with the tank and hoping to get some help with assessing a number of various issues with my tank. The tank was set up in the beginning of November and was a transfer of a tank that was up for about a year. It’s a 80 gallon with a sand bed, LR, running two Radion XR30s.

Latest parameters (ICP)

Alk - 7.9
Calcium - 425
Magnesium - 1390
Nitrates - 40!
Phosphates - 1.0

Here are the issues:

1. Since The beginning, I have been unable to grow any chaeto. I am using a Kessil H80 and running it for nine hours a day on a reverse cycle. About a month ago I started dosing iron and that has not helped at all. The chaeto appears to be very healthy and a nice green ball but does not grow at all. Considering how high the nitrates and phosphates are, I am really surprised about the lack of growth.
2. My nitrates and phosphates are obviously very high. I have a fairly large fish load with a blue tang, purple tang, six chromis, and two anthias. I’ve done two fairly large water changes in the past 3 weeks and while they bring the nitrates down a bit, they rise right back up. I just ordered some nopox and will see if that helps. I have also lowered my feeding regiment.
3. Most of the corals seem to be doing fine except for zoas and discomosa species of mushrooms. I have not had any losses but both species of corals looks withered and struggling to remain open. I have other species of mushroom that are doing very well.
4. About 2 months ago I developed dinos. I initially tried a black out and dosing hydrogen peroxide, both of which seemed to help in the short term but not a permanent fix. I assumed with the high nitrates and phosphates that I would have other algaes outcompeting the dinos but no luck. I don’t have any nuisance algae problems at all. I purchased some Vibrant two weeks ago and have dosed it twice and so far doesn’t appear to be affecting the dinos.

The tanks only been up ~6 months but starting to get pretty frustrated. Attaching some random pics I’ve taken the past couple weeks. Can get some better pics of the problem corals and the dinos. Help!

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[ofzakaria]

Hi Everyone:

Getting pretty frustrated with the tank and hoping to get some help with assessing a number of various issues with my tank. The tank was set up in the beginning of November and was a transfer of a tank that was up for about a year. It’s a 80 gallon with a sand bed, LR, running two Radion XR30s.

Latest parameters (ICP)

Alk - 7.9
Calcium - 425
Magnesium - 1390
Nitrates - 40!
Phosphates - 1.0

Here are the issues:

1. Since The beginning, I have been unable to grow any chaeto. I am using a Kessil H80 and running it for nine hours a day on a reverse cycle. About a month ago I started dosing iron and that has not helped at all. The chaeto appears to be very healthy and a nice green ball but does not grow at all. Considering how high the nitrates and phosphates are, I am really surprised about the lack of growth.
2. My nitrates and phosphates are obviously very high. I have a fairly large fish load with a blue tang, purple tang, six chromis, and two anthias. I’ve done two fairly large water changes in the past 3 weeks and while they bring the nitrates down a bit, they rise right back up. I just ordered some nopox and will see if that helps. I have also lowered my feeding regiment.
3. Most of the corals seem to be doing fine except for zoas and discomosa species of mushrooms. I have not had any losses but both species of corals looks withered and struggling to remain open. I have other species of mushroom that are doing very well.
4. About 2 months ago I developed dinos. I initially tried a black out and dosing hydrogen peroxide, both of which seemed to help in the short term but not a permanent fix. I assumed with the high nitrates and phosphates that I would have other algaes outcompeting the dinos but no luck. I don’t have any nuisance algae problems at all. I purchased some Vibrant two weeks ago and have dosed it twice and so far doesn’t appear to be affecting the dinos.

The tanks only been up ~6 months but starting to get pretty frustrated. Attaching some random pics I’ve taken the past couple weeks. Can get some better pics of the problem corals and the dinos. Help!

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With such high no3 po4, you will need to fight cyano alot. I actually have a feeling what you have is cyano not dino. Reefers mistake the 2 all the time.
Unless you confirm what you jsve is dino under the microscope, you can never tell.
Dino and cyano treatment are diffrent and without positive ID I do not advice you to treat dino.
If I am you I would start first by reducing the no3 so you reduce the imbalance between po4 and no3 in your tank.

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[Solitaryensis]

Thanks! I haven’t looked at it under a microscope yet but I am 100% sure it’s not cyano and 99.9% sure it’s dinos. I can get a closer pic later today.


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[ofzakaria]

Thanks! I haven’t looked at it under a microscope yet but I am 100% sure it’s not cyano and 99.9% sure it’s dinos. I can get a closer pic later today.


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How are you 100% sure it's not cyano...cyano is not alwayes red fyi.
If you 99.9% sure its dino then its dino..lol
What I am saying thi, unless you look under microscope its 50% chance you are 4igjt regardless of what you think sings you seen to indicate dino.


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[Solitaryensis]

How are you 100% sure it's not cyano...cyano is not alwayes red fyi.
If you 99.9% sure its dino then its dino..lol
What I am saying thi, unless you look under microscope its 50% chance you are 4igjt regardless of what you think sings you seen to indicate dino.


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It’s dark brown and stringy. But yes, you are right - I can’t be 100% sure without looking under a microscope so that is prob a next step.


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[ofzakaria]

It’s dark brown and stringy. But yes, you are right - I can’t be 100% sure without looking under a microscope so that is prob a next step.


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If you live in south bay I have a scope you can use if you like.
If it ended up being dino, treatment will involve reducing nutrients. Dino thrive in high po4 water.

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[Bruce Spiegelman]

This ones not hard to diagnose and it doesn't matter whether it' Dino's or not. It probably is because of the high P04, but the rest of the symptoms make the overall tank issue pretty simple to figure out. When Chaeto AND corals aren't getting any growth and are struggling to open it's Po4. High phosphates will inhibit growth. Yours show at 1.0, but are much higher based on the amount being consumed by your Dino's.

First thing to remember - this i still a baby tank. Six months in with that load and you'll be battling stuff until the tank matures. If it were me I'd skip the NoPox. Under these conditions I see that backfire and trade one issue for another too often. Grab a GFO reactor AND some Brightwell Phosphate remover. Don't use both at the same time! Do a big water change and siphon off all the dino's, and then get the P04 under control with the Brightwell. That usually just takes a few days. Once that's done set up your reactor with a SMALL amount of GFO and build up.

 

[ofzakaria]

This ones not hard to diagnose and it doesn't matter whether it' Dino's or not. It probably is because of the high P04, but the rest of the symptoms make the overall tank issue pretty simple to figure out. When Chaeto AND corals aren't getting any growth and are struggling to open it's Po4. High phosphates will inhibit growth. Yours show at 1.0, but are much higher based on the amount being consumed by your Dino's.

First thing to remember - this i still a baby tank. Six months in with that load and you'll be battling stuff until the tank matures. If it were me I'd skip the NoPox. Under these conditions I see that backfire and trade one issue for another too often. Grab a GFO reactor AND some Brightwell Phosphate remover. Don't use both at the same time! Do a big water change and siphon off all the dino's, and then get the P04 under control with the Brightwell. That usually just takes a few days. Once that's done set up your reactor with a SMALL amount of GFO and build up.

100% agreed.
Treating high po4 no3 should be a first step.
Just be careful when using gfo
1- make sure it's not silica based gfo
2- drop po4 slowly otherwise you might shock the ciral
3- you have to drop no3 as well via water change, right daily husbandry, cleaning sand, reduce feeding and feed rinsed frozen, reduce nori, avoid flakes...etv, having high no3 and low po4 is nightmare.

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[Solitaryensis]

This ones not hard to diagnose and it doesn't matter whether it' Dino's or not. It probably is because of the high P04, but the rest of the symptoms make the overall tank issue pretty simple to figure out. When Chaeto AND corals aren't getting any growth and are struggling to open it's Po4. High phosphates will inhibit growth. Yours show at 1.0, but are much higher based on the amount being consumed by your Dino's.

First thing to remember - this i still a baby tank. Six months in with that load and you'll be battling stuff until the tank matures. If it were me I'd skip the NoPox. Under these conditions I see that backfire and trade one issue for another too often. Grab a GFO reactor AND some Brightwell Phosphate remover. Don't use both at the same time! Do a big water change and siphon off all the dino's, and then get the P04 under control with the Brightwell. That usually just takes a few days. Once that's done set up your reactor with a SMALL amount of GFO and build up.

Thanks Bruce! Will order some of the Brightwell phosphate remover now. But wouldn’t the nopox do the same thing?


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[rygh]

+1 on GFO in a reactor to fight phosphates first.
Start slow, build it up.
Watch your Alk levels also, they could take a hit.

Manual removal of Dinos/Cyano is also very important.
Siphon them off the rock with a small tube.
If you suck up sand when you siphon, that is fine, throw it out. Replacement sand is cheap.
Keep doing it every weekend!

KEY: There are no miracle cures.
Nothing will change for several weeks, maybe a month or two in some cases.
It takes quite a while to get all the crud out of your system.
So don't give up.

 

[rygh]

Nopox is carbon dosing. Similar to vinegar, vodka, and biopellets.

It feeds bacteria so that they absorb more nitrates/phosphates.
BUT : One could argue you are also feeding Dinos/Cyano.
So it may eventually help, but also may make things worse for a bit.

 

[ofzakaria]

Nopox is carbon dosing. Similar to vinegar, vodka, and biopellets.

It feeds bacteria so that they absorb more nitrates/phosphates.
BUT : One could argue you are also feeding Dinos/Cyano.
So it may eventually help, but also may make things worse for a bit.

+1 carbon dosing is notoriously good environment for cyano and dino to thrive in.
I say this from experince..
You need to reduce po4 no3 slowly and keep it low.


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[Solitaryensis]

Thanks everyone! Going to try and avoid adding anymore equipment to the tank and try the phosphate remover first. Once I get it down, will switch over to the nopox to help with the nitrate issue as well.


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[ofzakaria]

Thanks everyone! Going to try and avoid adding anymore equipment to the tank and try the phosphate remover first. Once I get it down, will switch over to the nopox to help with the nitrate issue as well.


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If you want to bet on nopox justvread redsea Manuel you can start even with high nutrients, no need to wait. But you need to follow their program completly do not pick and choose that's my advice..

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[Solitaryensis]

If you want to bet on nopox justvread redsea Manuel you can start even with high nutrients, no need to wait. But you need to follow their program completly do not pick and choose that's my advice..

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I will use the nopox because 1) I’ve already ordered and it 2) I am also battling a nitrate issue.

Going to use the phosphate remover first since it sounds like the consensus is that it’s the bigger issue that should be addressed first?


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[ofzakaria]

I will use the nopox because 1) I’ve already ordered and it 2) I am also battling a nitrate issue.

Going to use the phosphate remover first since it sounds like the consensus is that it’s the bigger issue that should be addressed first?


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Man I know you will not like what I will say, but "using it because I baught it" is the worst role you can follow lol...
Good luck thu

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[rygh]

Be careful of those phosphate "remover" liquids. (Brightwell phosphate remover)
They are generally lanthanum chloride based, which binds with phosphate and produces a precipitate.
That precipitate is not healthy for your tank, and is not as easy to filter out as the advertising hints.
Ok for a bit, but long term suggest GFO or similar.

 

[treylane]

Did you keep the sand from the previous tank? Was it rinsed thoroughly?

What is your feeding regimen? Do you turn the pumps off when feeding the fish?

 

[Bruce Spiegelman]

Be careful of those phosphate "remover" liquids. (Brightwell phosphate remover)
They are generally lanthanum chloride based, which binds with phosphate and produces a precipitate.
That precipitate is not healthy for your tank, and is not as easy to filter out as the advertising hints.
Ok for a bit, but long term suggest GFO or similar.

Yeah.. it's a short term correction. Then on to GFO.

 

[Solitaryensis]

Did you keep the sand from the previous tank? Was it rinsed thoroughly?

What is your feeding regimen? Do you turn the pumps off when feeding the fish?

All new sand and rock. I cycled the tank for about 5 weeks. I have an auto feeder that feeds pellets once a day and also a cube of mysis or LRS with pumps on. Once or twice a week I feed reef roids with pumps off. It’s a 4’x24”x16” tank with an MP40, MP10 and Jebao towards the back of the tank. No filter bags but I use filter floss in the sump that gets changed out every 5-7 days or so.


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