HG torch bailout/next steps?

[IOnceWasLegend]

So, joy of joys, I found out that I'm pretty sure the HG torch that I share ownership of with @Srt4eric is in the preliminary stages of polyp bailout. Has still been extending and looking good, but I noticed patches of 'white' skeleton on the stalk that seemed to indicate the flesh was receding towards the head, and I saw an edge detaching from the skeleton when I examined it earlier (see linked video).

For people who've had this happen: any ideas what could be causing it? Parameters have all been stable (temp between 77.5 and 78.5, alkalinity between 8.5 and 9, Ca between 450 and 500, salinity of 1.025, nitrates between 15 and 25; PO4 being the exception, ranging between 0.04 and 0.18 as I've fine-tuned my GFO reactor), and all the other torches in the tank are doing great with good growth and no signs of shrinking flesh. The only thing I can think of is this being in a slightly higher-flow area relative to the other torches, but nothing that I would think dangerous for euphyllia (and I have torches downstairs in higher flow).

Any suggestions/tips/ideas on next steps for what to do if the polyps do bailout?

Video in question: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bTmzggGsWiDoDSePZvagOcv9CHG1PV7_/view?usp=sharing

 

[SupraSaltyReefer]

The flesh looks like it definitely has been receding. Have you heard of the Kung Fu Coral dip? The results have been amazing. He uses a mixture of a Amoxicillin, Ciprofloxacin, Chemiclean, Brightwell Lugol’s Solution and Brightwell Restor to help the flesh grow back. My bro had the same problem and he tried this and astonishingly the flesh on all his Euphyllia is growing back. I'll copy and paste the KFC Dip method below. Good luck!!!


His Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/kungfucorals/
Link here: https://kungfucorals.com/blogs/news/the-kfc-dip-a-game-changer-in-keeping-healthy-euphyllia

THE KFC DIP - A GAME CHANGER IN KEEPING HEALTHY EUPHYLLIA
by Danny Huynh Mar 25, 2022

Equipment:
1. Two 5 gallon buckets
2. Heater
3. Small sponge filter of some sort

Recipe:

1. 500mg Amoxicillin
2. 500mg Ciprofloxacin
3. 10 Leveled scoops of Chemiclean
4. 40 drops - Brightwell Lugol’s Solution (changed from original). Seem to work the same and less harsh.
5. 4 Capful - Brightwell Restor

Duration of dip: 6-18 hours

Instructions:

1. Using one of the 5g tubs, Add the dry meds:
   1. 500mg Amoxicillin
   2. 500mg Cipro
   3. 10 Leveled scoops of Chemiclean
2. Add 4 gallons of tank water
3. Set heater to 74 degrees
4. Let the mixture run with the sponge filter for approximately 10 minutes
5. Add 40 drops of the Brightwell Lugol's Solution
6. Add 4 capful of Restor
7. With the other 5g tub, turkey baster off any dead tissue from the Euphyllia and place in dip.

FAQ:
Q: Can I reuse the dip?
A: Dips should be discarded after 1 day. The medication will be less effective over time as well as dead bacteria will be floating around in the dip tub, thereby reducing the water quality.

Q: The recipe calls for a 4 gal tub; can I scale it down to 1 gal?
A: Absolutely! Just divide the ingredients by 4 and you'll have 1 gal dip.

Q: What does the dip do? How does it work?
A: This dip was developed to help clean Euphyllia of bacteria. A damaged or unhealthy Euphyllia could develop brown jelly disease (BJD). The dip is meant to help fight off BJD and allow the Euphyllia to heal itself.

Q: How often should I dip?
A: We recommend that you dip every other day until the torch is healed. Look at the tissue. Once it's healed, the tissue will be more inflated and plump. This is a good sign. You will also want to look for tissue NOT peeling upwards.

Q: I don't understand? Can someone just help me?
A: Absolutely! Message us on Instagram @kungfucorals and we'll be happy to lend a hand. We are hobbyist at heart and don't mine sharing information and knowledge.

Q: All my Euphyllia are having issues, can I do an in-tank treatment?
A: YES! The in-tank treatment uses the same ingredients but in different dosage. There's a procedure that we've used to help many tank turn completely around and have create thriving Euphyllia gardens again. DM us on Instragram for help. @kungfucorals

 

[reef89]

This works. @payaso saved my hg. He received it at his house and tried popping of the drag plug to put it on a plate and it cracked on the skeleton. The skeleton was super brittle I’m guessing. He super glued it and treated with the stuff above. He super glued the skeleton and after a few days no there’s skin covering the crack. I really think he is on to something here.

Day it came. And cracked

Third day after treatment

4th day of treatment

6th day of treatment (yesterday)

 

[IOnceWasLegend]

The flesh looks like it definitely has been receding. Have you heard of the Kung Fu Coral dip? The results have been amazing. He uses a mixture of a Amoxicillin, Ciprofloxacin, Chemiclean, Brightwell Lugol’s Solution and Brightwell Restor to help the flesh grow back. My bro had the same problem and he tried this and astonishingly the flesh on all his Euphyllia is growing back. I'll copy and paste the KFC Dip method below. Good luck!!!


His Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/kungfucorals/
Link here: https://kungfucorals.com/blogs/news/the-kfc-dip-a-game-changer-in-keeping-healthy-euphyllia

THE KFC DIP - A GAME CHANGER IN KEEPING HEALTHY EUPHYLLIA
by Danny Huynh Mar 25, 2022

Container: 4gal tub
Equipment: Heater and small sponge filter of some sort
Recipe:

1. 500mg Amoxicillin
2. 500mg Ciprofloxacin
3. 4 Syringe - Brightwell Lugol’s Solution
4. 4 Capful - Brightwell Restor
5. 10 leveled scoop – Chemiclean

Duration of dip: 6-18 hours
Instructions:

1. Add the dry med (Amoxicillin, Cipro, Chemiclean)
2. Add 4 gal of tank water
3. Add the Lugol’s solution
4. Let the mixture run with the sponge filter for like 10 mins.
5. Turkey baster off any dead tissue from the Euphyllia in a separate bucket and place in dip.

FAQ:
Q: Can I reuse the dip?
A: Dips should be discarded after 1 day. The medication will be less effective over time as well as dead bacteria will be floating around in the dip tub, thereby reducing the water quality.

Q: The recipe calls for a 4 gal tub; can I scale it down to 1 gal?
A: Absolutely! Just divide the ingredients by 4 and you'll have 1 gal dip.

Q: What does the dip do? How does it work?
A: This dip was developed to help clean Euphyllia of bacteria. A damaged or unhealthy Euphyllia could develop brown jelly disease (BJD). The dip is meant to help fight off BJD and allow the Euphyllia to heal itself.

Q: How often should I dip?
A: We recommend that you dip every other day until the torch is healed. Look at the tissue. Once it's healed, the tissue will be more inflated and plump. This is a good sign. You will also want to look for tissue NOT peeling upwards.

Q: I don't understand? Can someone just help me?
A: Absolutely! Message us on Instagram @kungfucorals and we'll be happy to lend a hand. We are hobbyist at heart and don't mine sharing information and knowledge.

Q: All my Euphyllia are having issues, can I do an in-tank treatment?
A: YES! The in-tank treatment uses the same ingredients but in different dosage. There's a procedure that we've used to help many tank turn completely around and have create thriving Euphyllia gardens again. DM us on Instragram for help. @kungfucorals

Much appreciated, @Mr2KiEu and @reef89 . @Srt4eric directed me to this last night as well, so I'll be going with this and grabbing everything I need from Neptune when they open today.

 

[JVU]

I met up with Phil @payas0 yesterday coincidentally and he was telling me about this specific torch save and others with this treatment. Maybe he can add more here.

 

[nly04]

Will the sponge filter will suck all of the med in it?

 

[richiev]

The flesh looks like it definitely has been receding. Have you heard of the Kung Fu Coral dip? The results have been amazing. He uses a mixture of a Amoxicillin, Ciprofloxacin, Chemiclean, Brightwell Lugol’s Solution and Brightwell Restor to help the flesh grow back. My bro had the same problem and he tried this and astonishingly the flesh on all his Euphyllia is growing back. I'll copy and paste the KFC Dip method below. Good luck!!!


His Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/kungfucorals/
Link here: https://kungfucorals.com/blogs/news/the-kfc-dip-a-game-changer-in-keeping-healthy-euphyllia

THE KFC DIP - A GAME CHANGER IN KEEPING HEALTHY EUPHYLLIA
by Danny Huynh Mar 25, 2022

Container: 4gal tub
Equipment: Heater and small sponge filter of some sort
Recipe:

1. 500mg Amoxicillin
2. 500mg Ciprofloxacin
3. 4 Syringe - Brightwell Lugol’s Solution
4. 4 Capful - Brightwell Restor
5. 10 leveled scoop – Chemiclean

Duration of dip: 6-18 hours
Instructions:

1. Add the dry med (Amoxicillin, Cipro, Chemiclean)
2. Add 4 gal of tank water
3. Add the Lugol’s solution
4. Let the mixture run with the sponge filter for like 10 mins.
5. Turkey baster off any dead tissue from the Euphyllia in a separate bucket and place in dip.

FAQ:
Q: Can I reuse the dip?
A: Dips should be discarded after 1 day. The medication will be less effective over time as well as dead bacteria will be floating around in the dip tub, thereby reducing the water quality.

Q: The recipe calls for a 4 gal tub; can I scale it down to 1 gal?
A: Absolutely! Just divide the ingredients by 4 and you'll have 1 gal dip.

Q: What does the dip do? How does it work?
A: This dip was developed to help clean Euphyllia of bacteria. A damaged or unhealthy Euphyllia could develop brown jelly disease (BJD). The dip is meant to help fight off BJD and allow the Euphyllia to heal itself.

Q: How often should I dip?
A: We recommend that you dip every other day until the torch is healed. Look at the tissue. Once it's healed, the tissue will be more inflated and plump. This is a good sign. You will also want to look for tissue NOT peeling upwards.

Q: I don't understand? Can someone just help me?
A: Absolutely! Message us on Instagram @kungfucorals and we'll be happy to lend a hand. We are hobbyist at heart and don't mine sharing information and knowledge.

Q: All my Euphyllia are having issues, can I do an in-tank treatment?
A: YES! The in-tank treatment uses the same ingredients but in different dosage. There's a procedure that we've used to help many tank turn completely around and have create thriving Euphyllia gardens again. DM us on Instragram for help. @kungfucorals

Where would people even acquire this these days?

> 500mg Amoxicillin
> 500mg Ciprofloxacin

 

[grizfyrfyter]

Where would people even acquire this these days?

> 500mg Amoxicillin
> 500mg Ciprofloxacin

When I used to treat a lot of anemones, I contacted a local Veterinarian and explained what I needed the meds for. She thought it was interesting and didn't hesitate to help.

Cipro is also know as FishFlox

 

[RandyC]

I have seen tissue recession occur sometimes due to high phosphate. I have killed a number of torches and this has shown up a few times my phosphate crept high. I don’t know the exact number, but I usually keep phosphates < 0.08 and I notice this start to happen when they get higher than 0.15. I can usually correct it if I lower my phosphates quick enough and keep things stable.

I met up with Phil @payas0 yesterday coincidentally and he was telling me about this specific torch save and others with this treatment. Maybe he can add more here.

I wont speak to the efficacy of the dip, but what it boils down to is it’s essentially a shotgun approach to kill any bacteria at all good or bad on your euphyllia and a food source. Three antibiotics (cipro, amoxicillin and erythromycin (Chemiclean), an antiseptic (iodine) and fatty acids/carbon/amino acids (Restor).

All three antibiotics kill or inhibit reproduction in different ways. So you’re really gonna get rid of most, if not, all bacteria.

Where would people even acquire this these days?

> 500mg Amoxicillin
> 500mg Ciprofloxacin

Chewy.com or Allivet.com will have it along with some LFS’s if you can’t get a vet to prescribe it.

 

[richiev]

I have seen tissue recession occur sometimes due to high phosphate. I have killed a number of torches and this has shown up a few times my phosphate crept high. I don’t know the exact number, but I usually keep phosphates < 0.08 and I notice this start to happen when they get higher than 0.15. I can usually correct it if I lower my phosphates quick enough and keep things stable.



I wont speak to the efficacy of the dip, but what it boils down to is it’s essentially a shotgun approach to kill any bacteria at all good or bad on your euphyllia and a food source. Three antibiotics (cipro, amoxicillin and erythromycin (Chemiclean), an antiseptic (iodine) and fatty acids/carbon/amino acids (Restor).

All three antibiotics kill or inhibit reproduction in different ways. So you’re really gonna get rid of most, if not, all bacteria.



Chewy.com or Allivet.com will have it along with some LFS’s if you can’t get a vet to prescribe it.

Do you, or anyone else, have sources to get that these days without a prescription, or a vet who would do the prescription? My experience from looking recently is the online stores either don't have it anymore or require prescriptions. Vets also don't want to do it over the phone, but want some sort of paid visit.

I believe this relates to people thinking horse tranquilizers cure covid, so now everything is unavailable or locked down.

 

[SupraSaltyReefer]

Do you, or anyone else, have sources to get that these days without a prescription, or a vet who would do the prescription? My experience from looking recently is the online stores either don't have it anymore or require prescriptions. Vets also don't want to do it over the phone, but want some sort of paid visit.

I believe this relates to people thinking horse tranquilizers cure covid, so now everything is unavailable or locked down.

Vets probably will not risk losing their license to write a fake prescription for your dog.

Aqua-Cipro-Forte-500-mg-x-30-Count_p_20788.html - Pet Supplies 4 Less

Pet Supplies 4 Less a one stop shop for low prices on flea & tick, pet meds, & more. Save money and autoship pet supplies directly home for a happy dog or cat!

www.petsupplies4less.com

 

[Blaise006]

Valley vet also sells these. Been using them to try and get uranema under control via cipro and metro.

 

[RandyC]

Do you, or anyone else, have sources to get that these days without a prescription, or a vet who would do the prescription? My experience from looking recently is the online stores either don't have it anymore or require prescriptions. Vets also don't want to do it over the phone, but want some sort of paid visit.

I believe this relates to people thinking horse tranquilizers cure covid, so now everything is unavailable or locked down.

I don’t believe fish antibiotics are being regulated any differently than they were before the ‘Rona, which is to say they just aren’t regulated at all. I think it just has to do with all the supply, raw materials and shipping logistics issues we have in this world now.

I have also ordered from valleyvet.com, but it appears that they are out at the moment as well too.

If you can’t find cipro, smz/tmz is another broad spectrum antibiotic like cipro. It is a mix of sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim. I have used it, but it isn’t as commonly suggested as cipro. Use at your own risk. I put half a tablet in for every 10 gallons (i.e., 400mg smz/80mg tmz per 10 gallons).

Fishbiotic SMZ/TMP Fish Antibiotic Fishbiotic - Pet Antibiotics | Pet

Free Shipping on most orders over $49. Great Low Price. Fishbiotic SMZ/TMP Tablets contain 800 mg sulfamethoxazole and 160 mg trimethoprim per tablet. For aquarium use. Tablets. Fishbiotic SMZ/TMP Fish Antibiotic Fishbiotic Pet Antibiotics | Pet

www.valleyvet.com

 

[Meshmez]

I have also heard of high phosphate being associated with polyp bailout.

 

[RandyC]

@IOnceWasLegend Did the HG torch make it?

 

[Srt4eric]

I saw this thread pop back up and my stomach dropped... Thanks @RandyC

 

[IOnceWasLegend]

@IOnceWasLegend Did the HG torch make it?

The parts that weren't lifting off the skeleton have all looked better (puffier flesh, covering more skeleton). The other parts haven't gotten worse, at least, and the tentacles are still extending nicely.

I'm hoping for the worst-case scenario to be cutting the 'bailout' head off once the flesh fully separated from the other heads, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[jhuynh]

here are my tsa holy grail that bailed out after receiving. I did nothing but let it heal in a safety cup and they were able to grow their own skeletons

 

[IOnceWasLegend]

I'm glad that it at least seems stable right now, if not getting better. Time, patience, and TLC seem to be working well so far.

here are my tsa holy grail that bailed out after receiving. I did nothing but let it heal in a safety cup and they were able to grow their own skeletons

View attachment 37666

Absolutely beautiful, and I'm definitely still interested in those, too!

 

[RandyC]

I saw this thread pop back up and my stomach dropped... Thanks @RandyC

You’re welcome.

The parts that weren't lifting off the skeleton have all looked better (puffier flesh, covering more skeleton). The other parts haven't gotten worse, at least, and the tentacles are still extending nicely.

I'm hoping for the worst-case scenario to be cutting the 'bailout' head off once the flesh fully separated from the other heads, but we'll have to wait and see.

So doing a little research. Some food for thought. No conclusions here. Just some interesting nuggets.

If you believe that BJD is bacterial and then you may give some credence to aquabiomics study that the offending bacteria is possibly Arcobacter spp.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/exper...iotic-treatments-for-brown-jelly-disease.791/

Here are some interesting tidbits I found.

“Based on gradient diffusion results, most Arcobacter strains were susceptible to gentamicin (99%) and tetracycline (89%). Erythromycin (78%), ciprofloxacin (72%) and doxycycline (76%) retained moderate activity against Arcobacter spp.”

Antimicrobial susceptibility testing of Arcobacter butzleri and Arcobacter cryaerophilus strains isolated from Belgian patients - PubMed

Gradient diffusion methodology is preferred for routine susceptibility testing. Acquired resistance to fluoroquinolones was observed in A. cryaerophilus. Macrolides are not first-choice empirical antibiotics for Arcobacter infections. Tetracyclines can be suggested for treatment of documented...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There are studies that indicated that a good number of Arcobacter strains are completely resistant to Amoxicillin. In addition, a few strains in their tests show some resistance to ciprofloxacin and erythromycin.

https://mdpi-res.com/d_attachment/antibiotics/antibiotics-10-00288/article_deploy/antibiotics-10-00288.pdf?version=1615386052

The incidence and antimicrobial resistance of Arcobacter species in animal and poultry meat samples at slaughterhouses in Iran

Arcobacter species are food-borne and zoonotic enteropathogens. Defined breakpoints for the investigation of antimicrobial resistance of Arcobacter are missing.The study was performed to investigate the incidence and antimicrobial resistance of Arcobacter ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Also, in general dipping in antibiotics is probably not a good idea in my mind that’s a recipe for disaster long term in potentially creating antibiotic resistance in bacteria. You should probably keep coral in a hospital tank and the dosage up for at least 5 days so the bacteria doesn’t have a chance to develop resistance. Same reason the doctors tell you to take the whole bottle of antibiotics or for a specific length of time even if symptoms improve.