TwinsReef
Guest
I don't feed my coral, I feed my fish twice a day with pellets , weekends I feed frozen mysys. For lights I have radions xr15 at 40% intensity schedule is from 7am to 7pm
I NEED HELP FIGURING OUT WHY I CANT KEEP SPS
- Thread starter TwinsReef
- Start date
H2OPlayar
Supporting Member
From a quick read through the thread, I would start with the Ca and MG testing. Keep CA ~350-420 and Mg ~1250-1450. You already are testing alk it seems, but try to keep that stable (8-9). XR15's at 40% should be enough, but maybe try pushing the peak to 60% slowly over 2 weeks.
Do you have an ATO and a thermostat?
Now flow, what does your flow setup look like?
Do you have an ATO and a thermostat?
Now flow, what does your flow setup look like?
jstiltne
Supporting Member
I also use AFR! Love the stuff, but if I let one of the big 3 (Alk Ca Mag) go untested, at least one would eventually go out of whack. Which salt you use seems to be a big factor - I just switched from Red Sea Black to Tropic Marin, before I was having to mix in extra Mag with my water, now I am having to mix in extra Alk. All while dosing 25 mL of AFR daily.
newfly
Supporting Member
My strategy is patient. Looks like all the parameters is mostly inline. There is no snake oil that can suddenly make sps grows . Test for mag and ca is a good idea. ICP is helpful as well.
I am fan of very high flow especially for sps. I have over 100x flow with 5 pumps. I can grow sps, but have a hard time with torch.
Last but not least , measure PAR. I suspect you will need to crank up the light. If so, so it slowly over 4-5 days.
I am fan of very high flow especially for sps. I have over 100x flow with 5 pumps. I can grow sps, but have a hard time with torch.
Last but not least , measure PAR. I suspect you will need to crank up the light. If so, so it slowly over 4-5 days.
EDIT:
I went back and took a look at your original post. One thing that stood out to me that you are on the lower end of the PH scale.
Assuming that Alk, CA, MG are all fine-get that PH up either with supplemental kalk, soda ash, or use of a CO2 scrubber. Once set up-minimal upkeep.
I use a scrubber and it adds about .2 to my PH -my understanding is that at the lower ranges-for SPS -they really don’t do well at all.
My current PH for the last week is running at 8.19-8.42. I do see the difference between 8.1 and 8.3 vs 8.2-8.4 in my tank.
Be interested in hearing from other folks what their PH range is w/ successful SPS.
If you have an apex I would consider a trident. One thing I have also noticed that when I put in a bunch of new frags at once -they suddenly consume a lot more alk and I need to change my AFR dose on occasion. I find it useful to have.
Don’t worry too much on phosphates -my tank currently is at .43 and SPS is doing ok.
I know Kenny at High Tide runs his phosphates even higher.
I totally understand the frustration. Hope you get going with SPS soon.
I went back and took a look at your original post. One thing that stood out to me that you are on the lower end of the PH scale.
Assuming that Alk, CA, MG are all fine-get that PH up either with supplemental kalk, soda ash, or use of a CO2 scrubber. Once set up-minimal upkeep.
I use a scrubber and it adds about .2 to my PH -my understanding is that at the lower ranges-for SPS -they really don’t do well at all.
My current PH for the last week is running at 8.19-8.42. I do see the difference between 8.1 and 8.3 vs 8.2-8.4 in my tank.
Be interested in hearing from other folks what their PH range is w/ successful SPS.
If you have an apex I would consider a trident. One thing I have also noticed that when I put in a bunch of new frags at once -they suddenly consume a lot more alk and I need to change my AFR dose on occasion. I find it useful to have.
Don’t worry too much on phosphates -my tank currently is at .43 and SPS is doing ok.
I know Kenny at High Tide runs his phosphates even higher.
I totally understand the frustration. Hope you get going with SPS soon.
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derek_SR
Supporting Member
IMO - If you are doing weekly water changes, your parameters are likely fine (Ca, Mg, trace). Where AFR/2part dosing eventually comes up short is when you have tons of stony colonies consuming a bunch of elements - obviously not the case here. My tank is less than a year old, grows all kinds of SPS, and I never test or dose Ca/Mg outside of 2 part. Always totally normal range when my ICP tests come back every couple of months. Eventually this may become an issue but if it's not an issue yet in my tank I'm sure it isn't in yours....
I'm not a master, but IME so far flow has the largest/most immediate impact on coral health and happiness. In my tank, when flow is cranked high enough for the SPS to be happy then the LPS start to get pretty grumpy, and I have to place them VERY carefully in the low-flow spots or they all eventually start retracting polyps (torches, hammers, gonis, acan). If your LPS are doing well and happy and fluffy it may be a sign you don't actually have enough flow for SPS. Maybe share a video?
Lighting would be next on the list for me - let us know when you get the PAR tested!
I'm not a master, but IME so far flow has the largest/most immediate impact on coral health and happiness. In my tank, when flow is cranked high enough for the SPS to be happy then the LPS start to get pretty grumpy, and I have to place them VERY carefully in the low-flow spots or they all eventually start retracting polyps (torches, hammers, gonis, acan). If your LPS are doing well and happy and fluffy it may be a sign you don't actually have enough flow for SPS. Maybe share a video?
Lighting would be next on the list for me - let us know when you get the PAR tested!
Boy this thread sure has taken off. I’m gonna play devils advocate. We recently got a bunch of corals. A strange thing happened to one of them. While they were all chopped up. Same coral , same place, some frags dies and got like this brown jelly. Bacteria I think. Some lived. Now if you’re just getting frags. Some live some die. It’s only when all sps die that you have a problem.
MichaelB
Supporting Member
I've been following this thread and trying to learn more about sps. I only lost one peace of a burning bush sps I got from the swap everything else is looking great.
(I don't don't think the one i lost was in the best shape it looked a little off when I dipped it)
A question I have, I've been dosing 5ml of all for reef a day.
Is there a point when I need to do something different?
If so when or how will I know?
Or would I just need to up the amount I'm dosing?
TwinsReef
Guest
I use red sea pro , my ca is at 440 and mag at 1325 . How many gallons is your tank ??
TwinsReef
Guest
I got
My mag is at 1325 and ca at 440, hopefully I get a par reading soon. However I read that low light won't cause a sps to bleach...
derek_SR
Supporting Member
I think this is great advice, too. I notice my tank is happier with better growth at higher PH (my tank is currently 8.1 - 8.4). It's tricky, though, because PH probes can be so untrustworthy and require calibration and the results seem to lead so many reefers down paths of spiral and despair. IMO, the best way to manage PH is by ensuring your room has enough fresh air. PH is just the mathematical result of alk and CO2 levels in the water, the latter of which is equalized with the air in the room. Scrubbers, skimmer lines outside (I do this), and kalk all help to cheat the equation and keep PH up. But so does leaving a window open all day!
My approach is to monitor alk primarily, and adjust my 2 part dosing to make sure alk keeps up with consumption. I run an ICP test every couple of months just to make sure nothing else is getting too far out of whack, but take the results with a big grain of salt. This approach is working for me (so far!).
Coral reefer
Past President
More flow and more light
TwinsReef
Guest
Thanks , depending at what time of the day, my oh ranges from 7.8 to 8.1
I'm going to look into dosing kalk
TwinsReef
Guest
I'll upload a video when I get home, currently my flow is at 50% in reefcrest on my mp40. 2 on each side
Coral reefer
Past President
I’d try putting them in the back wall instead. And ramp up to more like 75%
I use AFR -it’s great and I seldom need to make changes. Generally I use a trident and if see that my overall consumption of alk and CA change up/down then I make an adjustment. Tough on occasion as sometimes I see increased consumption of alk but not CA-
Increasing it sometimes only increases the CA but not the alk. Ironically sometimes in those cases by lowering it -it actually increases alk but decreases CA. This is only my experience though.
MichaelB
Supporting Member
Yea no trident way above my budget, but who knows maybe one day I'll manage to grow something out desireable enough to trade for one. So I test once a week min with salifert, and hannas (once i manage to acquire more reagents for them)
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@TwinsReef I'm going to give you some old man advice here from someone that's been in the hobby for 25+ years. Simplicity is key when starting out and our tanks nowadays are far more complicated than they need to be. As Rich and Ben say, these tanks are build on a road of (coral) bones! Death is part of the hobby and acropora tend to be some of the most finicky corals we keep.
Take a look at some old ReefCentral tanks of the month from the early 2000s: https://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-03/totm/index.php
The one I linked is Keith (ReefBum) Berkelhamer's tank way back in 2009. Look at how it's set up and how simple it is (minus his extra plumbing throughout his house that was to allow for farming corals).
Key factors are pure Berlin Method (read up on this if you're unfamiliar): strong and spread out light leaning towards the whiter spectrum (14-20k), LOTS of natural, porous live rock (1lb/gal), strong flow, big protein skimmer, stable temperature/salinity, 15% weekly water changes, activated carbon, calcium reactor, and kalkwasser. That's it.
No controllers, no ICP, no magic bottles, no compromise for LPS corals, very little technology, but LOTS of observation, patience, and absorbing everything he could off of books/experienced reefers. There's ways to solve things that don't exist much anymore (true live rock, metal halides, etc.) but there are solutions.
Take a look at some old ReefCentral tanks of the month from the early 2000s: https://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-03/totm/index.php
The one I linked is Keith (ReefBum) Berkelhamer's tank way back in 2009. Look at how it's set up and how simple it is (minus his extra plumbing throughout his house that was to allow for farming corals).
Key factors are pure Berlin Method (read up on this if you're unfamiliar): strong and spread out light leaning towards the whiter spectrum (14-20k), LOTS of natural, porous live rock (1lb/gal), strong flow, big protein skimmer, stable temperature/salinity, 15% weekly water changes, activated carbon, calcium reactor, and kalkwasser. That's it.
No controllers, no ICP, no magic bottles, no compromise for LPS corals, very little technology, but LOTS of observation, patience, and absorbing everything he could off of books/experienced reefers. There's ways to solve things that don't exist much anymore (true live rock, metal halides, etc.) but there are solutions.
Understandable but if you are keeping the pulse then should be good to go. I rarely need to make a change-and if so-incremental -like 1 ml.