got ethical husbandry?

I need to vent

Ok, I'll try to snap a pic later today when the full lights come on, I just reduced the daylight photoperiod of that tank due to some bleaching of some other fungias.
 
northbay-reefer said:
tuberider said:
northbay-reefer said:
Jeremy, Darn it! I didn't even know that the receipience is the one that need to do or "can do" the updating. Sorry about that. I'll update from now on as soon as I start receiving frags again :D

I also mistakenly though that some one is scanning through the DBTC posts each day and making updates.

Maybe in every DBTC post their should be a note about keeping things up todate? Just a though.
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It's not a rule that it is up to the recipient to post up the frags, I just ask that people do and use blind faith, it's as much my fault as anybodies really. The program does not have oversight other than the folks running the threads (the general membership), that's where my frustration lies. Again I don't mean to sound harsh and people that know me know I'm not uptight and angry, I'm just very passionate about the DBTC program and want it too succeed long term, not just turn into the line for free coral and fizzle out.
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I've known you for a long time so I don't think you are being harsh at all, I think your passionate about the program. DBTC is a great program and It is still in the growing process. I know that it has been around for years but in this hobby and in this club we are getting new members and old members leaving and coming back all the time. The idea tend to get loss with the change in membership. People like yourself that have been here for a while will help keep it going so I think it is good to bring this up.
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Membership changes are routine which is why this page was created: http://www.bareefers.org/home/node/13

When I go participate in a program I research it the best I can first. Jumping in clueless helps nothing.
 
Hmm. It really seems that the older members are assuming us new members have a lot of insider knowledge:

The main page explaining DBTC mentions nothing about any sort of transaction recording, etc.
It does a great job of explaining the fundamental concept of DBTC of course.
But basically says the rules, if any, are up to the person who gives out the coral.
There is no mention that tracking programs even exist, let alone are a requirement.
The only implication is that pictures of progress might be nice.

Now if you dive 2 levels into the DBTC forums, you find a sticky on a new tracking feature.
But even that does not imply that it should be followed.

Now looking at the frag pages, there are usually tracking info tables.
But remember - the frag originator created those pages.
How are we supposed to know it is up to us to modify someone else's pages?

So sure - Nobody should have an excuse for not understanding the concept and importance of DBTC.
(And I think people do, if you read the thread about why it can be difficult to give out DBTC corals)
But you should not be surprised at all that people are clueless as to what to type
on web page X to properly track things.

--

Now if you explicitly told someone to do the tracking, and they did not, that is another matter.

---

I hope the real result of this thread is to change the main page to emphasize the tracking, and point to a link on how to do it.
 
rygh said:
change the main page to emphasize the tracking, and point to a link on how to do it.
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IN an 100% volunteer club, a statement like that translates into "here is what I am going to do".

have at it, no one will stop you from purposing new language for the page ;)
 
GreshamH said:
rygh said:
change the main page to emphasize the tracking, and point to a link on how to do it.
Click to expand...

IN an 100% volunteer club, a statement like that translates into "here is what I am going to do".

have at it, no one will stop you from purposing new language for the page ;)
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Got me. :O
I will try to write up a few paragraphs.
 
I don't know others, but for me the tracking feature is cool thing and a fun part of the program (pls don't laugh at me, I am newbie). When I received my 1st DTBC frag from John, the 1st thing after I put the bag into tank is jump to computer and trying to figure out how could I add a frag, but disappointingly I found John has done that for me, I hate him because he took away the fun part :)

I think people just need to think more from other's prospective, I imagine as givers most would appreciate to see updates hence will be more incentive to give more and everyone benefit more from the program.
 
Feel free to use/modify/abuse/ignore this. Won't take it personal.
--- Proposal for paragraph to be added to main DBTC page --- As per Gresham's note ---

Now for the paperwork part : Tracking DBTC frags
The tracking of frags is an important part of DBTC. Don't panic, it is real easy and fun.
It is very cool to see what happens to the chain over the years, and provides incentive to start chains.
It also helps to show you are serious about the real concept, both as originator starting a chain, and as recipient updating it and not just in it for the freebies.
The BAR website has a special tool for tracking. This will get you started: http://www.bareefers.org/home/node/7207
Generally, the frag originator will set up the basic tracking table on the first post of their thread, along with the picture and other notes and rules.
When someone gets a frag, the recipient should go to that page, and click on "Add a frag", to add their new coral to the table. Very simple, only takes a few minutes, so no excuses!
Helpful hints:
Remember to please update the Status over time as it changes. In particular, do not feel bad about updating it to "Dead". You tried your best, and these things happen.
If trading at a meeting, make sure to clearly label the frag container with "DBTC", user name, and thread chain name. They can be hard to remember later.
If you received a DBTC frag, go to the web and update the status while you acclimate, not later. You will probably forget otherwise.
If you are giving a DBTC frag out, make sure to ask the recipient if they know about DBTC and agree to tracking. New members may assume it is simply a cool free coral.
 
ryanjiang said:
I don't know others, but for me the tracking feature is cool thing and a fun part of the program (pls don't laugh at me, I am newbie). When I received my 1st DTBC frag from John, the 1st thing after I put the bag into tank is jump to computer and trying to figure out how could I add a frag, but disappointingly I found John has done that for me, I hate him because he took away the fun part :)

I think people just need to think more from other's prospective, I imagine as givers most would appreciate to see updates hence will be more incentive to give more and everyone benefit more from the program.
Click to expand...

simply AWESOME way of thinking :D
 
rygh said:
Feel free to use/modify/abuse/ignore this. Won't take it personal.
--- Proposal for paragraph to be added to main DBTC page --- As per Gresham's note ---

Now for the paperwork part : Tracking DBTC frags
The tracking of frags is an important part of DBTC. Don't panic, it is real easy and fun.
It is very cool to see what happens to the chain over the years, and provides incentive to start chains.
It also helps to show you are serious about the real concept, both as originator starting a chain, and as recipient updating it and not just in it for the freebies.
The BAR website has a special tool for tracking. This will get you started: http://www.bareefers.org/home/node/7207
Generally, the frag originator will set up the basic tracking table on the first post of their thread, along with the picture and other notes and rules.
When someone gets a frag, the recipient should go to that page, and click on "Add a frag", to add their new coral to the table. Very simple, only takes a few minutes, so no excuses!
Helpful hints:
Remember to please update the Status over time as it changes. In particular, do not feel bad about updating it to "Dead". You tried your best, and these things happen.
If trading at a meeting, make sure to clearly label the frag container with "DBTC", user name, and thread chain name. They can be hard to remember later.
If you received a DBTC frag, go to the web and update the status while you acclimate, not later. You will probably forget otherwise.
If you are giving a DBTC frag out, make sure to ask the recipient if they know about DBTC and agree to tracking. New members may assume it is simply a cool free coral.
Click to expand...

Now that is what I call club spirit :) I like it.
 
I think Mark has a point.
When I first joined and started on the DBTC, I did not even know I (the receiptient) could add the frag on that page. I really thougth it was only the OP that had such access.
Not until months later I learned I could do that when Jeremy mentioned something at the meeting. That was a surprise to me.
Maybe the donor could give a heads up when giving out DBTC corals to someone that he knows is a new member.
Some members that are in the club for so long may think this is second nature, but for a new member it is not.
 
mpoletti said:
tuberider said:
It's good we can have this discussion, without people contributing to the program it disappears. While there is not a financial incentive to the program, there's a reward in sharing, propagating and creating a huge database of corals and their care, that's invaluable. It's more than just coral, it's movement of captive propagation that has spread across the country and to a certain extent is the backbone of our club.
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I agree 100%
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+1
Hey Mark, BTW I like that fish you have for your avatar!
Do you have an extra one of those fish I could have? :D
 
newhobby said:
I think Mark has a point.
When I first joined and started on the DBTC, I did not even know I (the receiptient) could add the frag on that page. I really thougth it was only the OP that had such access.
Not until months later I learned I could do that when Jeremy mentioned something at the meeting. That was a surprise to me.
Maybe the donor could give a heads up when giving out DBTC corals to someone that he knows is a new member.
Some members that are in the club for so long may think this is second nature, but for a new member it is not.
Click to expand...

Guess that logic bugs me as if you look at this in another context like a gas station it makes no sense at all. When I go to a gas station they don't tell me what gas to get or anything, I get it. If I stick diesel in my car, I'm up the creek. Why don't I put it in? Because I myself had to figure it out other ways.

If I plan on joining in a program I feel it is fully my responsibility to research it myself first. With an improved DBTC detail link there should be no issue with the giver having to tell anyone anything other then their DBTC rules.

take away message:

DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK!!!
 
JAR said:
Hey Mark, BTW I like that fish you have for your avatar!
Do you have an extra one of those fish I could have? :D
Click to expand...
Thanks. Nope, just have the one. Standard Ocellaris Clownfish, tank bred, bought at LFS.
Just a bit lighter color than normal.
 
I wrote a little blurb, but it seems the forum did not respond and swallowed it, oh well.

FYI guys, we're not talking about newbies not knowing how to log frags you're making assumptions, please don't jump to conclusions. Besides it is up to the giver to define criteria, not the club, unless of course it violates our rules as defined by our mission and our club policies. We really don't need to take the fun out of DBTC by shackling it with more rules.
 
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