High Tide Aquatics

Marine pure block leaching Aluminum?

Wlachnit

Wlachnit

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What are everyone’s thoughts about whether Marinepure ceramic blocks leach aluminum? A lot of online info suggests that they do, but it is not clear to me whether it is definitive. I have 4 blocks in my sump and I know that some time back my ICP-OES results had slightly elevated aluminum. After chatting with @Ibn and @Vhuang168 last week....and the occasional RTN I’ve been experiencing, it occurs to me that I should pull them out.

Thoughts?


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I recall hearing about that way back when.

I would think with all the ICP tests out there it would be fairly easy to test something like this. Completely naked tank nothing but water, put a lid on it to reduce evaporation, take readings, toss in a block, do monthly readings, then maybe one year mark, see what changes. And there should be some definitive results by now

Edit: Here
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i...brstv-investigates.307515/page-4#post-3814988

Yeah they do leach aluminium, how much is bad... who knows. Presumably the amount will grow with time so yeah I wouldn't use them with corals that are "sensitive"... so use them on your softy tank all day long, but not our SPS tanks where we try to get perfect water.
 
It’s not a simple issue at all.

1. Lots of people have shown increased Al on ICP testing after using MarinePure, but lots of others have shown no increased Al. Some have shown increased levels for a while then back to normal. Some have argued you need to wash/soak thoroughly first and this helps, some say it doesn’t help. Ryan’s test is useful but did he thoroughly wash/soak?

2. When ICP tests show aluminum it doesn’t tell you anything about what form it is in, just overall elemental Al. Some forms are proven toxic and others are proven safe/inert. The manufacturer says only the safe kind could even possibly be there, but I’ve never seen data from them or others to prove it either way.

3. The toxicity studies that are out there show effects on softies, not SPS or LPS as far I’ve seen, and at much higher levels than the ICP tests are showing. That doesn’t at all prove lower doses are safe.

4. How are blocks being treated in your sump? They are weirdly fragile and will start to come apart if not handled very carefully. Could vibrations in the sump, periodic bumping when doing maintenance, etc release more?

All that said, Ryan’s point is good that since we don’t know if they are toxic sometimes but we do know they aren’t necessary, then don’t use them unless you have a compelling reason to. I had a large block in my sump and recently removed it. My Al was nice and low but my lithium was high for some reason. Not sure if it’s related.
 
JVU said:
It’s not a simple issue at all.

1. Lots of people have shown increased Al on ICP testing after using MarinePure, but lots of others have shown no increased Al. Some have shown increased levels for a while then back to normal. Some have argued you need to wash/soak thoroughly first and this helps, some say it doesn’t help. Ryan’s test is useful but did he thoroughly wash/soak?

2. When ICP tests show aluminum it doesn’t tell you anything about what form it is in, just overall elemental Al. Some forms are proven toxic and others are proven safe/inert. The manufacturer says only the safe kind could even possibly be there, but I’ve never seen data from them or others to prove it either way.

3. The toxicity studies that are out there show effects on softies, not SPS or LPS as far I’ve seen, and at much higher levels than the ICP tests are showing. That doesn’t at all prove lower doses are safe.

4. How are blocks being treated in your sump? They are weirdly fragile and will start to come apart if not handled very carefully. Could vibrations in the sump, periodic bumping when doing maintenance, etc release more?

All that said, Ryan’s point is good that since we don’t know if they are toxic sometimes but we do know they aren’t necessary, then don’t use them unless you have a compelling reason to. I had a large block in my sump and recently removed it. My Al was nice and low but my lithium was high for some reason. Not sure if it’s related.
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Doesn't gfo also absorb Aluminum? Could be why some people see raised amounts and some don't.
 
The better question isn't whether it leaches aluminum, but is there a negative effect to what it's leaching? This has been hashed out with literally millions of words and there's no evidence that MarinePure or similar products have a negative effect on our tanks and we now they have a huge positive effect in many circumstances. It's kind of like the saccharine scare of the 1970's. They fed rats 5 thousand times the dose a person would get of saccharine and in some case the rats got cancer.......
 
Kalkwasser also has been shown to precipitate heavy metals as well (is aluminum heavy?), although that's in a high pH environment so likely to happen only right at where it drips into the tank.
 
ICP does show elevated alu levels in my tank. But no adverse effects that I've seen.

Fiji water apparently has similar levels of Alu

upload_2019-1-26_18-27-22.png
 
2x 8x8x4 bricks plus 1x 8x8x1 plate in the sump (along with 2L of siporax). Not running carbon or gfo and the corals, including softies, doesn't seem to be affected. Never done an ICP test so can't tell you what's in the water. I prefer using it versus having more rock than I want in the tank and so far haven't encountered any issues.
 
@lbn why not use rocks in place of marinepure blocks?

I ended up putting in just a few weeks ago one 4x4x8 block and 0.5 cubic feet 2”x2”x2” cubes in my sump.

I considered siporax then read about it may lead to elevated silica level. That was when I had a mental breakdown :)
 
I have a block. I like it because it is easy to keep clean, as opposed to live rock rubble or similar.
I had an ICP test a while back, and did not notice any Aluminum being high.
But I do run GFO, and I have auto-water exchange.

* It could be more of an issue if you run a no-water-change type system.
 
rygh said:
I have a block. I like it because it is easy to keep clean, as opposed to live rock rubble or similar.
I had an ICP test a while back, and did not notice any Aluminum being high.
But I do run GFO, and I have auto-water exchange.

* It could be more of an issue if you run a no-water-change type system.
Click to expand...

I run a no water change system and have two blocks and a gallon or so of balls and have no issues.
 
I thought I remembered seeing a product a few months back that was marketed to do the same thing but without aluminum. Was I just dreaming or has anyone else seen something like that?

I had the 4” brick in my sump from day 1. I washed it but not thoroughly. It was kept in a far corner and hit very little flow. I never touched it until the day I took it out when I tore down the system. I ran my system with no wc’s but never did an icp test. I had periodic rtn/stn’s but I couldn’t say for sure that it couldn’t have been from something else. I guess that makes my experience of no real help. :/

I would likely use it again though.
 
But BRS didn’t take ICP measurements before the marine pure additions so you can’t know for sure the elevated Al wasn’t already there.
e1860f61d2134c5a515212ca5fdc31af.jpg


Has anyone done ICP before/after adding marine pure? What I’m asking is where does the initial presumption that marine pure leaches Al comes from?

Anyway what numbers are marine pure users getting? I don’t use marine pure or any other chemical media and run 0.05-0.07ppm Al. Fritz salt provides about 0.05ppm Al which is about ocean levels so it would be weird to expect anything lower. So basically my tank has higher Al than the BRS “large marine pure block” tank without any marine pure. Maybe we should be concerned if Al isn’t AT LEAST 0.05ppm lol!
 
Chromis said:
But BRS didn’t take ICP measurements before the marine pure additions so you can’t know for sure the elevated Al wasn’t already there.


Has anyone done ICP before/after adding marine pure? What I’m asking is where does the initial presumption that marine pure leaches Al comes from?

Anyway what numbers are marine pure users getting? I don’t use marine pure or any other chemical media and run 0.05-0.07ppm Al. Fritz salt provides about 0.05ppm Al which is about ocean levels so it would be weird to expect anything lower. So basically my tank has higher Al than the BRS “large marine pure block” tank without any marine pure. Maybe we should be concerned if Al isn’t AT LEAST 0.05ppm lol!
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You’re right, they didn’t test before but the control tank should indicate whether the aluminum is coming from the marine pure or something else.
 
Chromis said:
But BRS didn’t take ICP measurements before the marine pure additions so you can’t know for sure the elevated Al wasn’t already there.
e1860f61d2134c5a515212ca5fdc31af.jpg


Has anyone done ICP before/after adding marine pure? What I’m asking is where does the initial presumption that marine pure leaches Al comes from?

Anyway what numbers are marine pure users getting? I don’t use marine pure or any other chemical media and run 0.05-0.07ppm Al. Fritz salt provides about 0.05ppm Al which is about ocean levels so it would be weird to expect anything lower. So basically my tank has higher Al than the BRS “large marine pure block” tank without any marine pure. Maybe we should be concerned if Al isn’t AT LEAST 0.05ppm lol!
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The way they did it, starting with the same water and treatment, then measuring after a couple months comparing to control tank with no MP, is more useful info than testing the water at the beginning before the couple months of MP use.
 
Chromis said:
But BRS didn’t take ICP measurements before the marine pure additions so you can’t know for sure the elevated Al wasn’t already there.


Has anyone done ICP before/after adding marine pure? What I’m asking is where does the initial presumption that marine pure leaches Al comes from?

Anyway what numbers are marine pure users getting? I don’t use marine pure or any other chemical media and run 0.05-0.07ppm Al. Fritz salt provides about 0.05ppm Al which is about ocean levels so it would be weird to expect anything lower. So basically my tank has higher Al than the BRS “large marine pure block” tank without any marine pure. Maybe we should be concerned if Al isn’t AT LEAST 0.05ppm lol!
Click to expand...

I have 4 Marinepure blocks in my 300g and my Triton results showed 80 ppb Al. Interestingly enough, my 93g tank showed 60 ppb where I do not run any Marinepure. I use Fritz salt so I guess the 60 ppb makes sense.
 
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