got ethical husbandry?

New store opens today!

As noted, I think the issue is lack of communication. Having a package is great, but if there's not someone checking in with a sponsor on a regular basis then the package is meaningless.
 
If you guys want my two cents....

From what I've heard through the grapevine...you lost your sponsors (I almost gave up on you guys as well) not so much from revenue/financial factors. But, from the fact that the last few generations of BOD/members doesn't seems have their sponsor's interests in mind like they used to be. At least that seems to be my perception.

The old BOD's and members used to protect their sponsors on this forum from such thing as sponsor bashing or allowing non-sponsor advertisement and etc. This last few months alone, there have been at least three or four incidents like that happening here, confirming that this club essentially has lost it's focus in this area. At least to some sponsors, it seems that way.

Bottom line is that I think this community, in general, needs to refocus and rebuild the club's culture from top down so that's it's a little more inline with the club's mission. You may want to make your sponsors feel that there is a positive return on investment for them as well, and it doesn't necessarily mean financially. Sometime, the simplest gesture such as watching their backs can go a long way!

Good luck guys. I hope I didn't cross the line. I know you guys are good people but sometime even the best of us can get side tracked every once in a while and lose sight of what's really important in front of you.

-Robert
 
robert4025 said:
If you guys want my two cents....

From what I've heard through the grapevine...you lost your sponsors (I almost gave up on you guys as well) not so much from revenue/financial factors. But, from the fact that the last few generations of BOD/members doesn't seems have their sponsor's interests in mind like they used to be. At least that seems to be my perception.

The old BOD's and members used to protect their sponsors on this forum from such thing as sponsor bashing or allowing non-sponsor advertisement and etc. This last few months alone, there have been at least three or four incidents like that happening here, confirming that this club essentially has lost it's focus in this area. At least to some sponsors, it seems that way.

Bottom line is that I think this community, in general, needs to refocus and rebuild the club's culture from top down so that's it's a little more inline with the club's mission. You may want to make your sponsors feel that there is a positive return on investment for them as well, and it doesn't necessarily mean financially. Sometime, the simplest gesture such as watching their backs can go a long way!

Good luck guys. I hope I didn't cross the line. I know you guys are good people but sometime even the best of us can get side tracked every once in a while and lose sight of what's really important in front of you.

-Robert
Click to expand...
Thank you for your input. I'm sorry you feel you've been bashed. I hope you understand that we (the bod) have a tough job in "policing" comments on our forum. We don't have much power to stop people from speaking their minds. Several years back when there was one particular very short lived member of our club that was acting irrationally and making negative posts about you I tried to delete some over the top posts about you, and I got backlash from the president at the time about how I can't censor people. It's a tough position to be in. Eventually the thread was locked, after the damage was done. Not sure even now how we could have done anything differently to prevent that.

One time a not at all active "member" of our forum bashed aquatic collection, and I know Karson felt we didn't stick up for him, but I felt many club members spoke up in support of them. Angry loud voices get heard, more so than many soft ones, and we can't control everyone.

I am one of the few mainstays on the bod for the last 5 years. Maybe I am in large part to blame for our straying from the path the club uses to be on. Hopefully the new bod will actually stay around long enough to do a good job and get us back on track. I don't see how we are not following the mission of the club, maybe that's my problem right there. The fact of the matter is, the entire bod quit after 2011. I stepped up, and have done the best that I know how to do with the resources and the help that I've had available to me. I haven't been able to recruit enough other bod member until this year to step down. I feel like I've actually done a lot to help keep the club afloat and more true to its roots than many of the people who have come and gone over the time I've been here.
Long story short, the club is only as good as the members it has. It is only a reflection of who we are. It certainly helps to have feedback from sponsors, and in a forum like this that everybody can see. Not just one or two people that take the time to talk to the store owners.
 
I too love that Robert responded. Always good to hear another point of view. I personally think we should be more involved with our sponsors. More club related events with them. Being totally honest we are lucky they want to be a part of us. Being an out going VP I could have done a better job at that ( and prolly a few other things ). I do say thank you to Neptunes , Aquatic Collections , Diablo Corals , Jester , Fish Doc for everything they've done. Really hoping I didn't miss anyone
 
Thanks Robert!!!

I remember some of these LFS-bashing threads as well. A mess.
But I don't want to be selectively policing comments to artificially help sponsors either.
And this hobby is special in that any store can get a problem fish from the wholesalers, and
any inexperienced user can kill a perfectly healthy fish very quickly.

Regardless of sponsor support, those threads do not really help the club anyway.
No particularly useful information.

So my suggestion : Officially leave the store reviews to Yelp.
If you notice : We have a forum on "Equipment" but we do not have a forum on "Stores"
Add a fake "Stores" forum, with a note to go use Yelp.
Then simply "report" store reviews, send the author a note to use Yelp, and delete the thread.
 
Bruce Spiegelman said:
What sucks about this thread though is after Mike's post I really want to make some witty and sarcastic remark about how it's all his fault, but I can't. I think Mike rocks!
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I think this club is pretty cool, and very special. And I think the sponsors we've had, especially neptunes and aquatic collection have been more than generous. I hope that the new generation can at least smell what the old club was like and can shake this myth that it isn't any good any more cause that just simply isn't the case.
Maybe it's different, sure why wouldn't it be? Almost all the members have changed, the hobby has changed, that's the way it goes.
Hopefully my post about talking to the sponsors when we are at their stores and letting them know we are a bar member and thanking them for their support does not get lost in this thread. I think that is important and not something everyone does.
 
Coral reefer said:
That's all basically part of what we do now. The main problems are member/bod turnover, and lack of volunteering and follow through.
We always ask the sponsors if they want to be vendors at swaps. Nobody but Jess at diablo has ever taken us up on it.
We delegated specific sponsor contact people a few years back in addition to a sponsorship chair on the board, hasn't seemed to work very well.
All in all sponsor during my time w the club have basically been donating stuff to a group of hobbysiatsbthat want to learn and be successful because they know it's a good cause, and that we definitely do shop in their stores. Maybe they don't see a huge benefit to business, but it's not a big cost either.
The club mainly exists off of membership dues and profit from the regional swap. Sponsors are a bonus. It's great if we can help them and they can help us at the same time. It's not the end of the world if any individual store doesn't want to be a sponsor of our club. All we can do is try our best given the amount of members we have, and the time and effort they are willing to give.
Click to expand...
well said, bravo. you should run for president!
 
robert4025 said:
If you guys want my two cents....

From what I've heard through the grapevine...you lost your sponsors (I almost gave up on you guys as well) not so much from revenue/financial factors. But, from the fact that the last few generations of BOD/members doesn't seems have their sponsor's interests in mind like they used to be. At least that seems to be my perception.

The old BOD's and members used to protect their sponsors on this forum from such thing as sponsor bashing or allowing non-sponsor advertisement and etc. This last few months alone, there have been at least three or four incidents like that happening here, confirming that this club essentially has lost it's focus in this area. At least to some sponsors, it seems that way.

Bottom line is that I think this community, in general, needs to refocus and rebuild the club's culture from top down so that's it's a little more inline with the club's mission. You may want to make your sponsors feel that there is a positive return on investment for them as well, and it doesn't necessarily mean financially. Sometime, the simplest gesture such as watching their backs can go a long way!

Good luck guys. I hope I didn't cross the line. I know you guys are good people but sometime even the best of us can get side tracked every once in a while and lose sight of what's really important in front of you.

-Robert
Click to expand...
well said, Robert! I just bought a bunch of coral frags from ya and very happy with quality and price!
 
As an incoming 2018 BoD member, this is great feedback and discussion. And, as Mike mentioned in one of his earlier posts, we should discuss at an upcoming BoD mtg.
 
Coral reefer said:
Thank you for your input. I'm sorry you feel you've been bashed. I hope you understand that we (the bod) have a tough job in "policing" comments on our forum. We don't have much power to stop people from speaking their minds. Several years back when there was one particular very short lived member of our club that was acting irrationally and making negative posts about you I tried to delete some over the top posts about you, and I got backlash from the president at the time about how I can't censor people. It's a tough position to be in. Eventually the thread was locked, after the damage was done. Not sure even now how we could have done anything differently to prevent that.

One time a not at all active "member" of our forum bashed aquatic collection, and I know Karson felt we didn't stick up for him, but I felt many club members spoke up in support of them. Angry loud voices get heard, more so than many soft ones, and we can't control everyone.

I am one of the few mainstays on the bod for the last 5 years. Maybe I am in large part to blame for our straying from the path the club uses to be on. Hopefully the new bod will actually stay around long enough to do a good job and get us back on track. I don't see how we are not following the mission of the club, maybe that's my problem right there. The fact of the matter is, the entire bod quit after 2011. I stepped up, and have done the best that I know how to do with the resources and the help that I've had available to me. I haven't been able to recruit enough other bod member until this year to step down. I feel like I've actually done a lot to help keep the club afloat and more true to its roots than many of the people who have come and gone over the time I've been here.
Long story short, the club is only as good as the members it has. It is only a reflection of who we are. It certainly helps to have feedback from sponsors, and in a forum like this that everybody can see. Not just one or two people that take the time to talk to the store owners.
Click to expand...

Thank You for your service, Mike! Sorry if I seems rude and not appreciative of what you're doing for the club. I very am. It's just that I am terrible at conveying my thoughts through typing. That's why I'd prefer a face to face conversation better....lol

In any case, BAR is by far still my most respected club of all the clubs I am sponsoring. Despite the challenges the club is currently facing, I still have faith that we can overcome them and improve it for the next generation of members.

Perhaps, instead of trying to put out fires left and right, I think we may need to take a different approach and work on being proactive on raising awareness (somehow) about the club's general culture to the new members. That way, we can help cultivate them early to becoming (for a lack of better term) a more "reasonable members" and thus creating a more sustainable pool of potential leadership for the future. This is something I noticed have been lacking for the longest time. Posts like this certainly help but it's not very targeted. We need to find a way to get information like this to the members more efficiently and conveniently, I guess.
 
In the past year, I've met a lot of reefers in the Bay Area... a lot. Probably close to 50+. Most of them are NOT members of BAR. In fact, when I ask if they are BAR members, they give me dirty look on their face like they just ate a grain of salt...I stop asking after that...but, maybe I should ask further why ?
 
robert4025 said:
Perhaps, instead of trying to put out fires left and right, I think we may need to take a different approach and work on being proactive on raising awareness (somehow) about the club's general culture to the new members.
Click to expand...

I know that works.

Start with the club mission, and make sure that everything we say and do relate back to the mission in a constructive and supportive manner.
 
Coral reefer said:
Sponsors are a bonus. It's great if we can help them and they can help us at the same time. It's not the end of the world if any individual store doesn't want to be a sponsor of our club.
Click to expand...

Sponsorship can be more than just about getting stuff or making money.

The sponsors we choose and the relationships supported by all parties contribute to messaging shared values and helps to promote the club mission.

"Bar Area Reefers(BAR) seeks to promote, foster and encourage education and appreciation for the ethical husbandry and propagation of marine life."

Coral reefer said:
All we can do is try our best given the amount of members we have, and the time and effort they are willing to give.
Click to expand...

This is the big ongoing challenge.
 
DEATH BY SNU SNU said:
In the past year, I've met a lot of reefers in the Bay Area... a lot. Probably close to 50+. Most of them are NOT members of BAR. In fact, when I ask if they are BAR members, they give me dirty look on their face like they just ate a grain of salt...I stop asking after that...but, maybe I should ask further why ?
Click to expand...
I don't understand that reaction personally. Admittedly I am not as involved in the larger reefing scene outside the scope of BAR...
It would definitely be good to talk to people about the club, and if they have a bad image of the club find out why at least.
 
Mr. Ugly said:
Sponsorship can be more than just about getting stuff or making money.

The sponsors we choose and the relationships supported by all parties contribute to messaging shared values and helps to promote the club mission.

"Bar Area Reefers(BAR) seeks to promote, foster and encourage education and appreciation for the ethical husbandry and propagation of marine life."



This is the big ongoing challenge.
Click to expand...
This is true, and we are still picky about who we associate with for this reason.
 
Coral reefer said:
This is true, and we are still picky about who we associate with for this reason.
Click to expand...

Actually there's a bit of a sticky issue here that doesn't get discussed, but I've heard store owners mention it and not in a happy way. They take issue with who we associate with at times at frag swaps -- specifically that we court garage and non-retail sellers. It's a bone of contention with "legitimate" sponsors and all retail stores.
 
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