Neptune Aquatics

Pointers - looking into 3D Printing

georgec

georgec

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Hi all,

It seems like there are a few folks on who do 3D-printing. Looking for some advice:

I know it's not necessarily for any sort of savings, but have been looking at 3D-printers for the kids of course ( not for anything I might want to build for the reef tank or otherwise ;) )

For background:
  • I can tinker / look at youtue/ google info etc, but would prefer something that once set-up, isn't too temperamental / doesn't take a lot of wrenching every single time
  • I'm the type that fixes most things around the house myself, does basic woodworking like building cabinets and shelves etc (I know not the same as 3D, but illustrating that I don't mind designing/solving / building)
  • Really am hoping this would be something I could do with the kids (middle schoolers), who like crafting / creating
Questions:
  • How hard is it to get started with 3D-printing? Assuming the first projects will be trying to download designs and print them out.

  • Designing from scratch:
    • What's the learning curve on actually designing something from scratch or modifying an existing design
    • Is this actually something my kids and I could figure out - I've read about programs like TinkerCAD and Fusion360 but am definitely not a CAD person at all.
  • Printers: It seems like the Creality Ender 3 line of printers is really popular, but more work to set-up vs. more expensive options. Are they ok as a starting point?
Any other pointers / advice would be much appreciated!

NOTE: Editting to include resources/information that folks have provided along the way or that I've found on my own

Some info is general. Other info may be focused on the Creality Ender line of printers, which is the one that I'm picking up.

Last Updated: 1/31/2021

General 3D-Printing:
Potential Upgrades/Add-Ons:
  • Auto-Bed Leveler (e.g. BLTouch).
  • Octoprint: RaspberryPi set-up to send prints and monitor printer over wifi. https://octoprint.org
Reef Specific:
 
Last edited:
Hi George,

I've been tinkering with 3D printer for a little bit and it's not complicated once you figured the workflow. My son went to summer camp where he learned most of but lost interest.
TinkerCAD is easy if you don't need exact dimensions, good for kids. Fusion360 has a little steep learning curve but there are some really nice tutorials on youtube that let you start. It's very powerful CAD but I'm not sure if kids would enjoy it. I, personally, prefer Fusion since you can do some neat stuff with it like join parts together and see how it fits etc. I'm not a CAD person too and started from scratch.
From what I've heard Creality is best for price - I have Ender 2 and its been a great toy. I upgrade some parts but nothing major - my friend just got Ender 3 after playing with some Anet clones and he is very happy. My Ender 2 is not too temperamental - I don't do anything with it for awhile, sometimes it needs a new nozzle (I don't bother with cleaning) and I replaced once loose wheel-bearing. IMHO If you don't want to spend extra money Ender 3 with new power supply and glass bed is great choice. There is a version with stiffer frame - that's a good thing also but not sure how it affects quality.
The only option it's missing is good auto-leveling but I think non of the chinese printers have it. Depending of the material you might want enclosure but again - it's all optional and not necessary.

Overall 3d printing is not a plug-n-play - you always have to tinker a little bit, there are two many variables involved and every print can be a little different.
 
I tried it and have not been finding enough time to tinker and get things to print properly. I went for one of the biqu printers from aliexpress which is an ender 5 with biqus upgrades like a touch display and auto leveling.

It printed amazing stuff with the first spool, but then I had a leveling issue and it destroyed the flexible bed. I got a glass replacement but haven’t been able to print anything with success since upgrading. I am about to give up honestly, I could give you a good deal on mine if you want something cheap to tinker with.

If I did it again I would look for someone’s setup with all the upgrades and try to copy that, or at least some setup that can print to the quality that you are expecting/wanting. I would consider myself to be good at tinkering, but have not been able to find the time to do it. I’m having heat and leveling issues so it involves setting up a print and then waiting for an issue, which can take a good amount of time. I probably need to reconsider my approach, but like I said I can’t seem to find the time to do it. It has been pretty disappointing, which is why I absolutely recommend finding someone’s success and copying that, cause it’s so cool when these work.

Here’s a skull that was turning out great, before I ran out of filament and haven’t been able to get anything to print again
2F8AF977-3C75-487C-98DF-96B18072A21C.jpeg


I really don’t want to dissuade you, but instead just let you learn from my mistakes.
 
My suggestion: Start with mail order printing.

Play around with various free drawing/CAD tools, and design something fun.
Upload your design and pay for someone to build and mail you your little dohicky.
It is cheap and fast.
And you can get things built with Titanium!

That should give you a good idea on what you really need.
Then, if still interested, spend real money.
 
rygh said:
My suggestion: Start with mail order printing.

Play around with various free drawing/CAD tools, and design something fun.
Upload your design and pay for someone to build and mail you your little dohicky.
It is cheap and fast.
And you can get things built with Titanium!

That should give you a good idea on what you really need.
Then, if still interested, spend real money.
Click to expand...

That way you miss the most interesting part of the hobby - watching how something cool comes from plastic wire ;) And immediate feedback where you can fix wrong design - I usually do 4-5 prototypes before something useful comes out. Sometimes even more - especially when you need exact fit of multiple parts.
 
A couple months ago I got my first 3D printer- a Prusa Mini. It’s not a cheap option but it is a really great printer by reputation and so far in practice for me. 2 month or so waiting list though. I haven’t had any serious problems yet and I’ve been through a couple 1 kg spools of filament, PETG and PLA. I’ve printed quite a few already-designed items from thingiverse.com and elsewhere, I’ve modified some designs to work better in tinkercad like an APS feeding ring, and I’ve come up with a couple simple original designs using it, like a light shroud for my H380. I’ve been using prusa slicer (a slicer is software that converts a CAD model to a printable object).

I’m sure you can have success and failures with any setup, but for me starting out it was important to set myself up for the least amount of frustration/failure as I could before I get to the fun parts. So far, that is definitely how it’s working out so I’m glad I got the highest rated equipment and supplies even though they aren’t the cheapest (still not expensive compared to our other hobby). In contrast, one of my kids got a highly rated inexpensive Ender clone that you have to fully build yourself a few years ago in high school and it was nothing but frustration for them, and still sitting incompletely built in my garage never having made a single model.
 
1. CAD isn't that hard. Good CAD is an art form, but frankly one that you don't need to learn to do this, so don't stress over it.
2. Figure out what material you want to print with, and find a printer that's compatible with that material. While they have their issues, for occasional use an FDM printer is probably the easiest to start with, opposed to something like an SLA printer.
3. Within FDM printers, almost all of the issues come down to one of a couple things:
-The tip is clogged.
-You ran out of line, but didn't take the remnant of old line out before putting new line in. It won't just keep feeding through nicely, don't try it.
-The line is getting tangled up/the spool is snagging on something.
-You didn't smear the glue stick on the bed and now the print is peeling up.
-The bed isn't level (it doesn't need to be stunning by my standards, but I argue over microns for a living)
-If you have a filament material like nylon that absorbs moisture then you need to keep it dry. If you didn't dry it then keep it in a dry box you're going to have issues. Leaving a spool of Onyx (chopped carbon fiber in nylon) open on a table for a couple hours can be the difference between a really nice print and a dislocated stringy mess leading to a clogged tip and jammed extruder wheel.
-Some combination of bed temperature/extruder temperature/extruder speed. Fortunately there are easy enough to find guidelines for each material. If you change materials you'll need to change these settings, and might need to change the tip size, but there's also plenty of guidance for this out there.

Everything else (print orientation, etc.) you'll pick up pretty quickly.

One thing I will say is the cheaper (read: almost all consumer grade) printers can be a bit like a classic Apex on a wireless connection. By this I mean they have their quirks, but once you're used to them it's not too bad. Moving up the food chain a bit (add a zero to the price) brings quite the increase in robustness, but typically comes with other limitations in addition to cost, so I wouldn't go there for a first printer.
 
FWIW, I highly recommend getting into 3D printing. It is very rewarding, and very useful in the hobby and around the house!
I am happy to help with any technical issues you may have, including tips and considerations with how to optimize designs for 3D printing.

I have 10+ years of 3D printing experience and currently have access to around 15 industrial 3D printers that can print plastics and metals using FDM, SLS, SLA, DMLS methodologies.

At home however, I use a CR-10 (bought with blown electronics on ebay) and upgraded all the electronics and hotend for under $60. Also, adding Octoprint to your Ender-3 or Prusa printers will change your life! I guarantee that!

Please don't hesitate to reach out with any questions you have, and I'd be happy to help!

Here are a few things I've 3D printed for my tiny 13.5gal tank :)

Random Flow Generator:
1607229387670.png


Anemone Guard:
IMG_1832.jpg
IMG_1843.jpg


Temperature and AQI monitor with text notifications:
IMG_1377.jpg
 
thesassyindian said:
FWIW, I highly recommend getting into 3D printing. It is very rewarding, and very useful in the hobby and around the house!
I am happy to help with any technical issues you may have, including tips and considerations with how to optimize designs for 3D printing.

I have 10+ years of 3D printing experience and currently have access to around 15 industrial 3D printers that can print plastics and metals using FDM, SLS, SLA, DMLS methodologies.

At home however, I use a CR-10 (bought with blown electronics on ebay) and upgraded all the electronics and hotend for under $60. Also, adding Octoprint to your Ender-3 or Prusa printers will change your life! I guarantee that!

Please don't hesitate to reach out with any questions you have, and I'd be happy to help!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the thoughts and offer of help. Now, if only there were a printer on sale....
 
georgec said:
Thanks for the thoughts and offer of help. Now, if only there were a printer on sale....
Click to expand...
Ender 3, Ender 5, CR-10 are very good budget printers around the $200 mark.
If you want an out of the box solution, look at the Prusa MK3S.

But if @ashburn2k is able to beat the prices, the Ender5 is good too!

If you want to outsource the print jobs, you can get your design printed from places like Shapeways.

Let me know if you need more info :)
 
is shapeways the way to go? Do you have other recommendations I should consider if I’m looking to do the pay per print route. At this point I’m looking to just have someone else print for me until I buy another printer.
 
max_nano said:
is shapeways the way to go? Do you have other recommendations I should consider if I’m looking to do the pay per print route. At this point I’m looking to just have someone else print for me until I buy another printer.
Click to expand...
If you need parts printed in PLA / TPU, I can print them for you - just pay for the amount of filament used (I feel cheap asking for this, but filament cost adds up very quickly, especially if it involves printing supports).
Otherwise, Shapeways is reliable - we've been outsourcing certain jobs to them since 2013.
 
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I ordered PLA as it seems the default for genera projects. Once we get a few prints down with the kids, I’ll order some PETG to try out some reef projects.
 
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