Rygh's 250 gallon upgrade
- Thread starter rygh
- Start date
rygh
Guest
Yes, I tried the basics. I even set it up in a bucket, to cover it with water, like a sump.
Helped a fair amount.
Unfortunately, vibration is being transmitted through pipe, into wall.
I have a short piece of vinyl pipe, but it is still solid enough to transmit.
Plus, the loss in flows is a big issue.
Helped a fair amount.
Unfortunately, vibration is being transmitted through pipe, into wall.
I have a short piece of vinyl pipe, but it is still solid enough to transmit.
Plus, the loss in flows is a big issue.
rygh
Guest
Interesting idea on the uniseals.
But I have to fireproof where my pipes go through the walls, so it is limited.
No fire doors like you have.
The Pan World pump seems like a good solution.
Fixes the noise, plus fixes the flow. Both of which were must-fix problems.
Not too expensive.
And I have used them for years. Almost no maintenance, and easy if you do.
Hopefully I can sell or find a use for the brand new Q1-4000. Too late to return.
But I have to fireproof where my pipes go through the walls, so it is limited.
No fire doors like you have.
The Pan World pump seems like a good solution.
Fixes the noise, plus fixes the flow. Both of which were must-fix problems.
Not too expensive.
And I have used them for years. Almost no maintenance, and easy if you do.
Hopefully I can sell or find a use for the brand new Q1-4000. Too late to return.
rygh
Guest
Quick update on aqua-scaping.
Started mortaring some rock together. Mostly just practicing. (Sick of plumbing)
Need to get the hang of it.
One problem is that the sakrete concrete I used sets almost instantly.
From when you dump the water in and start mixing, you have about 1.5 minutes before
it gets too solid to work properly.
So basically, one little cup, one little rock at a time.
Yet again, I am tempted to go back to epoxy, which I know how to deal with.
I think the plan is to use concrete for the base rock, and major connections, then epoxy on the details.
At least I am getting to the fun part.
Started mortaring some rock together. Mostly just practicing. (Sick of plumbing)
Need to get the hang of it.
One problem is that the sakrete concrete I used sets almost instantly.
From when you dump the water in and start mixing, you have about 1.5 minutes before
it gets too solid to work properly.
So basically, one little cup, one little rock at a time.
Yet again, I am tempted to go back to epoxy, which I know how to deal with.
I think the plan is to use concrete for the base rock, and major connections, then epoxy on the details.
At least I am getting to the fun part.
xcaret
Guest
Can you post an image of how the pipes go through the wall?
If you could wrap the pipes with insulation material like the one used for copper pipe might help on the vibration issue.
In concrete construction a foam like material is used on rebar for seismic purpose, but I can't remember the proper name of it, looks like the copper pipe insulation.
The place that might have it is White Cap then again, the inner diameter of that material might be the problem.
If you could wrap the pipes with insulation material like the one used for copper pipe might help on the vibration issue.
In concrete construction a foam like material is used on rebar for seismic purpose, but I can't remember the proper name of it, looks like the copper pipe insulation.
The place that might have it is White Cap then again, the inner diameter of that material might be the problem.
rygh
Guest
As requested, a picture of the pipes going through the wall.
(Note that I still need to add this special fire-stop caulking as well)
It is really not that hard to open up again, so would be possible.
A simpler alternative is more flex-tube. The thin ribbed flex tube isolates the noise as well.
From Aquarium_Release
Here is the current planned solution. New pump.
Fixes both noise and flow problem.
From Aquarium_Release
(Note that I still need to add this special fire-stop caulking as well)
It is really not that hard to open up again, so would be possible.
A simpler alternative is more flex-tube. The thin ribbed flex tube isolates the noise as well.
From Aquarium_Release
Here is the current planned solution. New pump.
Fixes both noise and flow problem.
From Aquarium_Release
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
JAR said:
Was at home depot the other day and GreatStuff (also an expanding foam) now has a fire block/rated option.
rygh
Guest
Yes, OSH and others have the expanding fire rated foam.
But that is technically NOT good enough!
It is great for sealing wires, gaps, and other holes where fire can get in.
But for PVC plumbing, you actually need a special caulk that EXPANDS in a fire, and you need to put it in a collar around the tube.
The concept being : In a fire, the PVC tube melts/burns, so the special expanding caulk fills the void.
So I built a collar (sortof) with metal, and plan to fill it with the special caulk.
What I would call "pretty good".
But that is technically NOT good enough!
It is great for sealing wires, gaps, and other holes where fire can get in.
But for PVC plumbing, you actually need a special caulk that EXPANDS in a fire, and you need to put it in a collar around the tube.
The concept being : In a fire, the PVC tube melts/burns, so the special expanding caulk fills the void.
So I built a collar (sortof) with metal, and plan to fill it with the special caulk.
What I would call "pretty good".
rygh
Guest
tuberider said:
The spa-flex seems to transmit the noise as well. As does the thicker vinyl tubing.
But yes, better than solid PVC.
I think a fair amount is transmitted in the water as well as pressure waves.
What did work in a quick test setup:
1) Install a vertical pipe, right off the pump, full of air. Like you have in house plumbing systems, to reduce hammering.
This reduces the noisy pressure waves in the water.
2) Install a loop (not at all straight) of the thin ribbed flex tube.
But I don't really have the room for all that, plus I do not trust that thin ribbed flex tube in any sort of pressure situation.
What also helped was simply holding the output tube. So I am thinking that clamping a big heavy block of wood to that might work.
With that wood being isolated from everything.
Or possibly even clamping something to the concrete garage floor.
rygh
Guest
Definitely.Elite said:
Although the pump can be taken apart without disconnecting pipe.
Like pipe, I wish I had standardized on my unions. I have a mix of what was available, and OSH/Lowes sells different ones.
So I can't quite mix and match the pieces.
Or the O-rings. ARGH, I lost one!
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
Ah gotcha (re: foam), although you'd think if PVC melts the water that was in said PVC would put out the fire 
rygh
Guest
Not the first time that codes don't really take into account fish tanks.sfsuphysics said:Ah gotcha (re: foam), although you'd think if PVC melts the water that was in said PVC would put out the fire
No need for GFCI, but you need fancy fire stops ... go figure.
That said, 240 gallons, when it comes to fire fighting, is not really a lot of water.
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
I think the fire stop is simply because you're creating an opening from one zone that requires it (garage) to another that doesn't (living room or wherever).
And yeah 240 gallons isn't terribly much but fire stops are not meant to stop fire just give a bit of extra time to get out, and 240 gallons of water wooshing out could give you another few moments... if anything your internal tank force would pick up a disturbance with your tank
And yeah 240 gallons isn't terribly much but fire stops are not meant to stop fire just give a bit of extra time to get out, and 240 gallons of water wooshing out could give you another few moments... if anything your internal tank force would pick up a disturbance with your tank
rygh
Guest
It is funny:
After my oops garage spill, and some serious rethinking, I moved some plumbing around such
that my worst case failure water loss is more like 75 gallons, instead of around 300.
I still worry about the scrubber filters though. So many places where things could go so wrong ....
And dual 1000 GPH pumps would empty those 75 gallons in about 3 minutes.
I really optimized filter efficiency. But not sure it was worth it. Maybe I will work on electrical or lights for
a while while I think things through again.
After my oops garage spill, and some serious rethinking, I moved some plumbing around such
that my worst case failure water loss is more like 75 gallons, instead of around 300.
I still worry about the scrubber filters though. So many places where things could go so wrong ....
And dual 1000 GPH pumps would empty those 75 gallons in about 3 minutes.
I really optimized filter efficiency. But not sure it was worth it. Maybe I will work on electrical or lights for
a while while I think things through again.
rygh
Guest
I want to explain the last post, and filtration:
CURRENT:
Filter 1 = Algae Turf scrubber.
- Pulls water from tank. Intake close to surface.
- Pumps up to turf scrubber.
- Gravity fed from scrubber back to tank.
Filter 2 = Algae Turf scrubber.
- Pulls water from tank. Intake close to surface.
- Pumps up to turf scrubber.
- Gravity fed from scrubber back to tank.
Filter 3 = Standard sump / skimmer
- Gravity fed from tank overflows.
- Goes to sump
- Pumped back to tank through normal returns.
ALTERNATE:
The two turf scrubber filters could get water from the sump, and return it to the sump.
The good:
- Far less plumbing.
- Eliminates bubbles.
- Eliminates ugly intakes and returns from main tank.
- Less risk. It would only drain sump to level of ATS pump intakes. And less plumbing = less risk.
- Less noise. Fewer pipes in use through wall.
The bad:
- Less efficient. I am only scrubbing the sump water, so far less overall filter turnover. (1/3)
- Pods from ATS get shredded by pump.
- Less main tank circulation. The ATS flow no longer can be counted in tank water movement.
I am seriously thinking of switching though. Perhaps more due to the simple nightmare of plumbing I am getting.
Sure a lot easier to switch now when it is just tap water in the tank....
CURRENT:
Filter 1 = Algae Turf scrubber.
- Pulls water from tank. Intake close to surface.
- Pumps up to turf scrubber.
- Gravity fed from scrubber back to tank.
Filter 2 = Algae Turf scrubber.
- Pulls water from tank. Intake close to surface.
- Pumps up to turf scrubber.
- Gravity fed from scrubber back to tank.
Filter 3 = Standard sump / skimmer
- Gravity fed from tank overflows.
- Goes to sump
- Pumped back to tank through normal returns.
ALTERNATE:
The two turf scrubber filters could get water from the sump, and return it to the sump.
The good:
- Far less plumbing.
- Eliminates bubbles.
- Eliminates ugly intakes and returns from main tank.
- Less risk. It would only drain sump to level of ATS pump intakes. And less plumbing = less risk.
- Less noise. Fewer pipes in use through wall.
The bad:
- Less efficient. I am only scrubbing the sump water, so far less overall filter turnover. (1/3)
- Pods from ATS get shredded by pump.
- Less main tank circulation. The ATS flow no longer can be counted in tank water movement.
I am seriously thinking of switching though. Perhaps more due to the simple nightmare of plumbing I am getting.
Sure a lot easier to switch now when it is just tap water in the tank....