Kessil

Skimmer sizing

R

richiev

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Sorry for a conversation that's certainly been hashed over and over, but asking this group because I don't see it in the archives. I don't think I've ever been super explicit about skimmer sizing in the past. Back in the day, I don't recall there being ranges, and I bought what budget and newness entailed (anyone remember MSX skimmers? Seems like the might've become reef octopus?).

Recently my earlier used tank came with one (Skimz, I hate this thing). I'm now on the market for a skimmer for my Reefer 500 and I'm finding myself very confused.

Take for instance the NYOS 120. On BRS they say:

BRS Recommended for tanks up to: Heavy Bioload (Most Common) - 75 Gallons Medium Bioload - 150 Gallons Light Bioload - 250 Gallons

That is a giant range.

My general assumptions:
  • BRS is a good source, but they are dumbing down to a lowest common denominator, and that have an agenda to make you spend more
  • gallons is kinda silly as a measure, but good in terms of water it's turning over
  • larger amounts of SPS move you up to the max range (eg 75 there)
  • adding a refugium bumps you down a range (sps+fuge=150 there)
  • a fleece roller or diligent floss changing move you down at least 1 level, if not 2
My tank is about 130gal with sump. I will for sure have a fuge because I like them for pods and such. I want a skimmer to help get anything funky out, but I'm ok with having higher levels. I also will have a phosphate reactor as needed. I also will run some small amount of carbon, just to catch junk that gets in the water. I also would love to not run the skimmer 24x7, since I feel it'd be nice to reduce electric usage slightly.

I'll have a decent size fish volume, and I will certainly have sps as part of a mixed reef (sps, lps, shrooms). I doubt I'll on the near term have these giant mountains of coral.

My sump has 4 filter cups, but I'm not signing up to do mechanical filtration swaps. If I went that way, I'd just get a floss roller. I don't really want either though, because I'm leery of what they do to pods (I intend to have a couple pod eaters). For now I'd be sizing my skimmer for no mechanical filtration.

So, I think my livestock pushes me to the max of the skimmer ratings, but not all the way since I'm not an acro farmer. Let's say med-high.

I think my fuge bumps me down to that medium rang, especially when I add in a phosphate remover and a bit of carbon.

Any guidance from the smart masses here?
 
If you don't mind AC pumps I have a reef octopus that would probably be perfect for that tank. I'll have to figure out the model number tomorrow and the footprint.
 
I also have a bubble king double cone 150 that I may be willing to part with. These perform well for a much bigger tank than what they are rated for.
 
When I looked up the Nyos 120 I got the following.

9E884F08-80D0-4EB8-8A70-D03F553184D4.jpeg


To address your question about sizing, I like using the medium stocking as a general basis. I personally don’t like to “overfilter”. And IMO, most of the “ranges” are marketing ploys. I’d say, go with a reputable brand. A good skimmer will skim (big or small). That being said, consider rather how frequent do you want to or can you clean the skimmer cup? Neck and cup size matter more to me than what the box says it’s rated for.

Also going back and re-reading that last part you wrote up, just like your lighting schedule for your refugium you can adjust the skimmer hours based on your needs. Higher nutrients skim all day. Lower nutrients or bottoming out, skim at night or every other day.

I personally don’t run carbon or phosphate removers because I’d rather my skimmer pull the physical matter (fish poo) out than just stripping it of the NO3 & PO4.
 

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Any new cone skimmer will work fine. I always try to buy the biggest skimmer that I can fit into the dedicated space. That way if you grow ( fish or coral ) , there’s no need to upgrade. The bigger the collection cup , the better. I’m lazy and hate cleaning and emptying the cup. I like the dc pumps so I can dial it up or down. Skimmers with the pump on the outside skim better than the pumps in the skimmer. IMO.
Scrappers are a waste of time, save your money on that novelty.
A name brand 300 dollar skimmer will skim as good as a name brand 1000 dollar skimmer.
I’ve run the same atb skimmer with different skimmer motors for 10 years. I asked the really old guys if I should upgrade. Everyone told me to not that they are all the same. Except the motors these days are more efficient.
Hope that helps.
 
phc567 said:
Any new cone skimmer will work fine. I always try to buy the biggest skimmer that I can fit into the dedicated space. That way if you grow ( fish or coral ) , there’s no need to upgrade. The bigger the collection cup , the better. I’m lazy and hate cleaning and emptying the cup. I like the dc pumps so I can dial it up or down. Skimmers with the pump on the outside skim better than the pumps in the skimmer. IMO.
Scrappers are a waste of time, save your money on that novelty.
A name brand 300 dollar skimmer will skim as good as a name brand 1000 dollar skimmer.
I’ve run the same atb skimmer with different skimmer motors for 10 years. I asked the really old guys if I should upgrade. Everyone told me to not that they are all the same. Except the motors these days are more efficient.
Hope that helps.
Click to expand...
We basically said close to the exact same thing at the exact same time @phc567 :Dhaha
 
The dc pump feature to adjust the intensity is nice, and I found the varios dc pump in the reef octopus to be a lot quieter than my vectra ac pump. Agree with get the biggest skimmer that will fit, and the biggest cup. Or even better, have a way to drain the skim into a larger container so you don't need to clean as often, then a float switch to kill the skimmer at the top of the container to prevent it overflowing would be my ideal setup.
 
I have Nyos 220 on my S400. I also believe getting as big a skimmer as you can fit for future proof (as you could always reduce skimming time if needed). It might be too large for my system but I got it used from a buddy so no complaint.
The Nyos is really nice but a real pia to dial in (but one of the best skimmer once tuned). I also added the Avast Swabbie and hooked it up a skimmate container. Haven't touch the skimmer cup in 3-4 months (just occasionally empty the 1gal skimmate container. One of the best thing I ever got for the tank as cleanning the skimmer cup is my least favorite thing to do on the tank.
 
Find a skimmer that has a hose connected to the cup to drain into a container. Removing the cup sometimes is a PITA. Don't over-think skimming size, AC vs DC.

What is considered light, mid, heavy bio-load? What is the mfg criteria, how did they make the calculations?

My RSK600 has a built in neck cleaner, drain tube and a knob that I guess is meant to "dial-in". All convenient and less work.

Running on IM100 mixed reef has 13 fish range from 2-5". 4 tangs, 2 chromis, 1 damsel, 3 wrasse, 1 flame angel, 2 clown. Feed 3x a day when I'm home. When away, automatic feeder 2x\day.

I drain the cup every 2-3 weeks.
 
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I like my nyos 120. I had a simplicity 120 that basically never worked (bad motor). You’re welcome to it if you want to source a motor. (I bought a replacement impeller thinking that was the problem, it wasn’t)
 
NATURAL_REEF said:
I have Nyos 220 on my S400. I also believe getting as big a skimmer as you can fit for future proof (as you could always reduce skimming time if needed). It might be too large for my system but I got it used from a buddy so no complaint.
The Nyos is really nice but a real pia to dial in (but one of the best skimmer once tuned). I also added the Avast Swabbie and hooked it up a skimmate container. Haven't touch the skimmer cup in 3-4 months (just occasionally empty the 1gal skimmate container. One of the best thing I ever got for the tank as cleanning the skimmer cup is my least favorite thing to do on the tank.
Click to expand...

I might have been lucky, but I didn't have to do much to my NYOS 120 to get it dialed in.
 
I never really understood why there are ratings for skimmers. A good skimmer just pulls out organics if organics are there to be pulled out. If the skimmer is "oversized" then, that's fine, it will provide more oxygenating agitation, but it will pull out whatever is there. If the skimmer is "undersized" then at first it will pull out a lot of crap and you'll have to keep emptying the cup until any EXCESS organic crap doesn't exceed the skimmers cup capacity. Then you just have a smaller cup to empty more often just because it is smaller, but attach an overflow container and it's no problem.
Now look at the steady state. You've run the skimmer (big, small, whatever) for a month and it pulls out X amount of crap. In all likelihood it is pulling out what it can whenever it presents itself.
if it takes 5 hours for one piece of fish poo to disintegrate and get bubbled out of your skimmer, then so be it. Big skimmer or small skimmer ... at that point what's the difference? I'm going to make a wild guess and say that most skimmers can remove organics about as fast or faster than you add it in, unless you overfeed.
If you have a lot of fish, OK, sure get a big skimmer. If you only have coral ... does it make that much of a difference after a month? At steady state with proper feeding ... does it matter?

That's my opinion. If in
 
H2OPlayar said:
The dc pump feature to adjust the intensity is nice, and I found the varios dc pump in the reef octopus to be a lot quieter than my vectra ac pump. Agree with get the biggest skimmer that will fit, and the biggest cup. Or even better, have a way to drain the skim into a larger container so you don't need to clean as often, then a float switch to kill the skimmer at the top of the container to prevent it overflowing would be my ideal setup.
Click to expand...
I bought a used Skimz skimmer, it has a DC pump that failed. I pulled out the whole skimmer, went back to my 20 year old AquaC EV120 and it's Mag5, which has run continuously for 20 years except for a month of the Skimz skimmer. I bought a replacement AC pump for the Skimz, which has slightly different fittings than the DC version. I'm sure DC skimmers are more reliable now, but I've had that pump and a DC return pump fail on me and I don't trust them now. it may be unfounded, now that several years have passed since DC pumps first arrived, but when I have reliable AC pumps, I'll use them.

If DC pumps are reliable and somehow save electricity, then I'll give them a try again maybe. Only better efficiency would convince me that they are worth it.

V
 
Coral reefer said:
You tried replacing the power supply?
Click to expand...
the motor works when it’s 100% clean but even after 2 days if it loses power it won’t spin back on, even if I try to shove a chopstick in there and start it up it won’t restart. it will stay on forever as long as there’s no power loss. It’s always been like this unfortunately I bought it from Diablo corals and never used it for 2 years and it became out of warranty when I realized the problem. If anyone wants to pay $100 for a motor directly from simplicity you can have it. I was kind of done testing after spending $35 on a new impeller. I also got sent a new controller accidentally it’ if anyone needs that
 
Vincerama2 said:
I never really understood why there are ratings for skimmers. A good skimmer just pulls out organics if organics are there to be pulled out. If the skimmer is "oversized" then, that's fine, it will provide more oxygenating agitation, but it will pull out whatever is there. If the skimmer is "undersized" then at first it will pull out a lot of crap and you'll have to keep emptying the cup until any EXCESS organic crap doesn't exceed the skimmers cup capacity. Then you just have a smaller cup to empty more often just because it is smaller, but attach an overflow container and it's no problem.
Now look at the steady state. You've run the skimmer (big, small, whatever) for a month and it pulls out X amount of crap. In all likelihood it is pulling out what it can whenever it presents itself.
if it takes 5 hours for one piece of fish poo to disintegrate and get bubbled out of your skimmer, then so be it. Big skimmer or small skimmer ... at that point what's the difference? I'm going to make a wild guess and say that most skimmers can remove organics about as fast or faster than you add it in, unless you overfeed.
If you have a lot of fish, OK, sure get a big skimmer. If you only have coral ... does it make that much of a difference after a month? At steady state with proper feeding ... does it matter?

That's my opinion. If in
Click to expand...
I could be wrong but "larger" skimmers will move more water through and hence more effective at removing stuffs.
I tried 4-5 different skimmers on my current tank and could definitely tell the difference in performance.
The Nyos is some of quietest AC Skimmer; almost as quiet as some of the DC skimmers I have seen.
 
It is absolutely possible to have too big of a skimmer on a system. It may be hard to do but it’s possible. I would ask myself if there’s a brand I like (skimmer/pump) and go from there.
I like to have the skimmer pump moving about as much water as my return pump
 
There's good info here, and I've added some of these skimmers to my spreadsheet. Regarding the actual sizing, it kind of feels like the answer is "no one really knows" combined with "you'll need a bigger one when you know you need a bigger one".

My summary:
* Going off the middle of the range is reasonable
* A main benefit of bigger is less maintenance, including dealing with the cup. A seemingly better alternative to that is the drain.
* DC is good, which I agree with, and aligns with the BRS guide. However a lot of good skimmers just work, so not a requirement.
* Other maintenance simplifies (neck cleaner) are maybe useful, maybe a pain, but either way not a deal breaker

Feels like someone needs to do a research paper on the science of skimming. Maybe tweet at Elon musk.
 
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