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The_Lazy_Reefer

BOD
Staff member
I’ve been following along. I have a pretty good relationship with Carson/Joe over at AC so I’ll chat them up a bit this weekend and see where we stand and possibly what prompted the leave in the first place. Only ever been to Neptune’s 2 times but I’ll go as an ambassador of our club and see where we stand over there as well. There’s also an email sent off to my Instagram sponsor(sicce) to see if they are down to give us a little love so we shall see where that goes.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
I’ve been following along. I have a pretty good relationship with Carson/Joe over at AC so I’ll chat them up a bit this weekend and see where we stand and possibly what prompted the leave in the first place. Only ever been to Neptune’s 2 times but I’ll go as an ambassador of our club and see where we stand over there as well. There’s also an email sent off to my Instagram sponsor(sicce) to see if they are down to give us a little love so we shall see where that goes.
Neptune is one of the most prominent LFS in bay area. Really powerful place for reefes and hobbyist..let's bring him also, rob is awesome!!

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The_Lazy_Reefer

BOD
Staff member
Neptune is one of the most prominent LFS in bay area. Really powerful place for reefes and hobbyist..let's bring him also, rob is awesome!!

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There may in fact lie the problem. Neptune’s is “famous” even on the other side of the country so we need to think about what we offer because going to places and asking for a handout basically is always a hard sell especially to an elite shop thats well known.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
There may in fact lie the problem. Neptune’s is “famous” even on the other side of the country so we need to think about what we offer because going to places and asking for a handout basically is always a hard sell especially to an elite shop thats well known.
So Am at Neptune like every weekend. Can I help with anything? Would you like me to bring the topic up? Knowing rob, and not knowing the history ofcourse, I cannot imagin him not supporting this community...if BAR thrive it's good for all LFS in the area isnot it..
I do not want to step in to wasp nest am just offering help if there is any I can provide..
I would not call it a hand out, I call it a symbiotic relationship..

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NanoCrazed

Supporting Member
There may in fact lie the problem. Neptune’s is “famous” even on the other side of the country so we need to think about what we offer because going to places and asking for a handout basically is always a hard sell especially to an elite shop thats well known.
Bingo! I think that's what we need to figure out as well. The relationship is a two way street...

I believe from past conversations, the original PAR meter and the saw were donated by Rob at Neptune. So, i think there is certainly an openness to support BAR by guys at AC and Neptune.

Question is what they might like to see from BAR in by ways of support in turn.

This is can be a mutual virtuous cycle here... we send folks their way, they send folks our way...

In any case, I think it's worth a revisit and dialogue...
 

Coral reefer

BOD
Staff member
New people good. New people that align with Our mission is the target. You can lead a horse to water but not make it drink. I don’t want a million noobs asking a million dumb questions then not taking our advice and posting ridiculous stuff. If they wanna learn, and see our mission as cool and something they wanna Be a part of it then that’s great.
There needs to be a balance of new excited people, and older experienced people.
If the focus is solely or too largely on new members old experienced members will lose interest and grow tired of answering the same questions everyday.
This is one of the em biggest problems IMO with the larger forums. Nobody wants to read, just ask their questions.
 

Coral reefer

BOD
Staff member
So Am at Neptune like every weekend. Can I help with anything? Would you like me to bring the topic up? Knowing rob, and not knowing the history ofcourse, I cannot imagin him not supporting this community...if BAR thrive it's good for all LFS in the area isnot it..
I do not want to step in to wasp nest am just offering help if there is any I can provide..
I would not call it a hand out, I call it a symbiotic relationship..

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I think anyone and everyone should talk to Robert Karson and joe as much as they are willing about BAR. It’s everybody’s club, and if those guys know we want and value their support then that’s good.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
New people good. New people that align with Our mission is the target. You can lead a horse to water but not make it drink. I don’t want a million noobs asking a million dumb questions then not taking our advice and posting ridiculous stuff. If they wanna learn, and see our mission as cool and something they wanna Be a part of it then that’s great.
There needs to be a balance of new excited people, and older experienced people.
If the focus is solely or too largely on new members old experienced members will lose interest and grow tired of answering the same questions everyday.
This is one of the em biggest problems IMO with the larger forums. Nobody wants to read, just ask their questions.
Lol...harsh...I consider myself noob btw... ha ha.
But I get your point.

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ofzakaria

Supporting Member
New people good. New people that align with Our mission is the target. You can lead a horse to water but not make it drink. I don’t want a million noobs asking a million dumb questions then not taking our advice and posting ridiculous stuff. If they wanna learn, and see our mission as cool and something they wanna Be a part of it then that’s great.
There needs to be a balance of new excited people, and older experienced people.
If the focus is solely or too largely on new members old experienced members will lose interest and grow tired of answering the same questions everyday.
This is one of the em biggest problems IMO with the larger forums. Nobody wants to read, just ask their questions.
Mike, the more I read this post the more I want to say something. So am gonna say it and hopefully it will not be taken the wrong way. I have ton of respect for you and everyone in the club.

I am in the hobby for 12 years, living in bay area for 13 years...yet I only heared of bar last year from rob..
as you can see, am engaged in the hobby, but I still consider myself a "noob" and have asked stupid questions and debated where am proven wrong or proven right or even agreed to disagree. All added value to me as a reefer and influenced how I want to forge my path..

I wish I have found BAR 10 years ago when I was making mistakes left and right, but if our mission statment is that we do not want noobs who ask alot of question, I think the club have a fundamental problem.

Because I believe "quality" "the right answer" and "the right way" are very subjective especially in this hobby.
The hobby is evolving and things are changing, some of these changes are accepted by all, some are accepted by part of the reefing community, so now, how do we judge this queation or answer is good or bad? Furthermore, if an experienced reefer felt the question is not worth the time, simply they should not bother, someone else will address and life will go on...

I come to BAR to hear other points and openions and diversity in that is key to drive engagment and discussions do not you think?

Reading older thread back in 2018 the same comments were made that the club need new blood, the club need helpers and volunteers. Fast forward 2 years in this thread, I see similar theme, that means engagment is still low. I also see many of the users who used to be active here no longer engaged...

We cannot expect the bay area reefing community is small. Yet I think engagment in BAR is lower than what I would expect it.....heck this area gave birth to Neptune systems and apex, Neptune aquatics and aquatic collections...these companies and stores changed the hobby forever...you drive engagment of any product BAR included, by bringing new users to the products noobs and experienced..

Sorry for the long post all what am saying is:

- I think new reefers with their silly or complex questions (to a point ofcourse) is good for the club

- local store are very important to the club since the club is intimate regional club

- I wish that the actual mission of the club is not "this club is execlusive to experienced users only" if it is, I do not think I qualify myself for its membership..

Cheers all.

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JVU

BOD
Staff member
We are a diverse club of people with diverse opinions. Mike is very experienced, and on the Board, but he’s giving his personal (strongly worded) opinion, not an official position of the Board or the club.

It isn’t useful to take what a person says on a forum out to the extreme fringe of how it could be interpreted and then get upset about it, which I feel has happened a couple times on this thread. It seems to be the Internet’s specialty sometimes. The mission of the club has nothing to do with having experienced vs inexperienced reefers, except that we try to help everyone be more successful, which includes education and experience. Clearly we need a balance of experienced and inexperienced people for our mission. And of course the club needs a constant flow of new members, including new more-active members to keep things running.

There have been some great new ideas and newly championed old ideas discussed here. Let’s focus on those. The Board is meeting this weekend to discuss this and other agenda items.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
We are a diverse club of people with diverse opinions. Mike is very experienced, and on the Board, but he’s giving his personal (strongly worded) opinion, not an official position of the Board or the club.

It isn’t useful to take what a person says on a forum out to the extreme fringe of how it could be interpreted and then get upset about it, which I feel has happened a couple times on this thread. It seems to be the Internet’s specialty sometimes. The mission of the club has nothing to do with having experienced vs inexperienced reefers, except that we try to help everyone be more successful, which includes education and experience. Clearly we need a balance of experienced and inexperienced people for our mission. And of course the club needs a constant flow of new members, including new more-active members to keep things running.

There have been some great new ideas and newly championed old ideas discussed here. Let’s focus on those. The Board is meeting this weekend to discuss this and other agenda items.
For the record I was not offended neither do I think what Mike meant is bad per say. I think I understand where he is coming from and his fear cause I have seen it on R2R where things are out of control.
I am just saying I think there is a middle ground between current bar and r2r..
I have ton of respect for mike...

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rygh

Webmaster
Staff member
Note that I have certainly heard my share of questions here on BAR on where is a good LFS, and people never having heard of Neptune.
So it can go both ways.

One big difference between BAR and R2R is that many people on BAR have actually met each other.
We have events like swaps, potlucks, and so on, to bring people together more.
And with that comes better help, camaraderie, and trust, making it far more than just another website.

So for me personally:
Adding new members is nice.
Improving the number of "fully active" members is far more important.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
Note that I have certainly heard my share of questions here on BAR on where is a good LFS, and people never having heard of Neptune.
So it can go both ways.

One big difference between BAR and R2R is that many people on BAR have actually met each other.
We have events like swaps, potlucks, and so on, to bring people together more.
And with that comes better help, camaraderie, and trust, making it far more than just another website.

So for me personally:
Adding new members is nice.
Improving the number of "fully active" members is far more important.
question here is: is it working? On the thread back in 2018 similar arguments where made..do we see more engagment on bar or less over the last 2 years? Am genuinely asking since I do not know the data...
LFS is breeding ground for local reefers which what we are seeking....

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Twisted

Supporting Member
Sad to hear this club doesn’t want growth. As far as I know I’m the youngest member on BAR and love this forum! But I know a ton of people my age who refuse to join the forum because they call it “dead”
 

JVU

BOD
Staff member
Sad to hear this club doesn’t want growth. As far as I know I’m the youngest member on BAR and love this forum! But I know a ton of people my age who refuse to join the forum because they call it “dead”
We do want growth just not reckless growth at any cost. And wanting vs getting isn’t so simple. We have some younger members and want to encourage more, so if you have suggestions we are open to them.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
I say NO to FB
too big, no accountability

I vote for a "smaller" club with PAYING members
this gives us a more dedicated hobbyist
Clubs on fb I agree a no for me.
Using fb advertisements platform to target bay area reefers and make them aware if the club so they come to the club and sign up, I think is powerful..

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glee

BOD
Staff member
BAR is for everyone: new and old reefers. Everyone is welcomed. Each member has their own opinion. I tell everyone I meet about BAR and what I do as a BOD even if they do not have a fish tank. I recruit new reefers to join, ask questions, start tank threads. If they want to become supporting members, great. If not, maybe later.
BAR is the only active forum in the Bay Area where you can post questions, answers, reviews, and be part of the reefing community. RC and FB is only for sale posts.
I first heard about BAR from Steve at Lucky Ocean. I started reefing from a suggestion from my cousin and after snorkeling in Hawaii. If Steve did not tell me about BAR, I might never have found this place either. Fast forward 15 years and I’m now volunteering my time to make this an awesome experience for everybody new and old.
Support from LFS is important as others have mentioned because for new entrants to this hobby, the gateway is from LFS and everyone in this community. I’m not necessarily talking about sponsorship type of support but just making sure we have good relationships with our prized LFS. Keeping members happy is just as important because the more minions we have, the more we are willing to talk about the ethical husbandry of marine life.
There is no vote. We are all in it together.
 

rygh

Webmaster
Staff member
question here is: is it working? On the thread back in 2018 similar arguments where made..do we see more engagment on bar or less over the last 2 years? Am genuinely asking since I do not know the data...
LFS is breeding ground for local reefers which what we are seeking....

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I have been in the club quite a while. Active membership has swung up and down considerably.
I feel it is up from 2018, but far from high points.
I have no real data though, and not really sure how we would even measure it.

Perhaps as part of quarterly financials we could also start reporting paying "supporting members"count.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
I have been in the club quite a while. Active membership has swung up and down considerably.
I feel it is up from 2018, but far from high points.
I have no real data though, and not really sure how we would even measure it.

Perhaps as part of quarterly financials we could also start reporting paying "supporting members"count.
Then I recommend the BOD regularynlook at some engagment metrics like posts per months and new members per quarter and such. Without knowing these metrics how can you measure success of a method?

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