Jestersix

Super glue & sand rock bonding technique

grizfyrfyter

grizfyrfyter

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I heard about this a couple months ago from another reefer. I found a video from Tidal Gardens showing the technique and what rock structures they built with it.

I've used epoxy before, I didn't like it. I've used hydraulic cement before, I didn't like how long it took to cure and it took a couple hours to really solidify and I still had pieces fail. I used emarco 400 a lot, it takes a while to really harden and bond but it works well.

This method is hard within a minute and the bond is so strong, everytime I tried to break it, the rocks broke before the glue did.

I ordered a bottle of thin CA glue from gluemasters and broke up a bunch of rock that was in my garage. I also bought a 10lb bag of dry aragonite sand
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The technique is to position your rocks together, put some glue on both pieces and immediately put sand on top of the glue. Put more glue on the sand and cover with glue again. Another layer of glue then another layer of sand. Let sit for 45 seconds and it's done. Rock hard bond.

The connections are visible but not nearly as much as with epoxy or cement.
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Flip the rock over and do the other side.

I was able to do this rock work for my 100 gal tank in about 2 hours with less than 8oz of glue.
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I have also tried this with a few different brands of glue and it works fine. They didn't dry as fast, the longest I had to wait was about 5 min for a single connection before it was solid but that's still better than any other option. The key is you need THIN glue. Medium or Thick glue just doesn't work.

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Also, wear gloves. Not latex or nitrile gloves, they will just tear and leave pieces on the rocks. Wear light duty work gloves, heavy cleaning gloves might work.

You will want to do this in a well ventilated area unless you like killing braincells (though, there are much better way to accomplish this).
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Use this and accelerate the drying time of any glue to a second. Whether it’s for glueing frags to a plug or building a scape
 

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Fair enough. Makes sense for larger scapes. I’ve never used sand personally, but then again, never worked with any piece of individual rock more than 5 lbs.
 
I saw one of the Aussie guys (Gallery Aquatica I believe) do something similar, except they take pieces of rock and pulverize it into a dust, I'm guessing it works a smidge better with more surface area and what not, either way seems like a very quick and easy way to put stuff together without the need to wait for hours for something to setup.

That said, my only real concern is what is the realistic shelf life of the glue after you open it. It seems with any sort of gel glues most of them you get 2 shots to use at most the first day of gluing, then one more day after you cut off a chunk of the nozzle, maybe squeeze a 3rd shot out if you want to use a drill bit and drill through the crust that formed.
 
sfsuphysics said:
I saw one of the Aussie guys (Gallery Aquatica I believe) do something similar, except they take pieces of rock and pulverize it into a dust, I'm guessing it works a smidge better with more surface area and what not, either way seems like a very quick and easy way to put stuff together without the need to wait for hours for something to setup.

That said, my only real concern is what is the realistic shelf life of the glue after you open it. It seems with any sort of gel glues most of them you get 2 shots to use at most the first day of gluing, then one more day after you cut off a chunk of the nozzle, maybe squeeze a 3rd shot out if you want to use a drill bit and drill through the crust that formed.
Click to expand...
I have three different bottles of opened thin glue now. I haven't had to puncture or cut any tips to use them since I opened them a few weeks ago.
 
Im doing a hybrid on the scape I'm working on now.

1st: I'm using extra thick super glue gel and insta set to "tack" pieces in place. This sets up real quick and can hold a good amount of weight. This allows me to try different configurations, and easily break it back apart if I don't like it.

2nd: once I'm pretty confident in a section, I go back with epoxy putty in all the spots I can. The key here is keeping the surface of the epoxy wet while smoothing it into the rock. And working with small bits at a time, so it stays moldable.

3rd: cover the epoxy joints with the extra thin super glue and crushed up Marco rock dust. I also go in and fill other smaller joints I can find with this method.

I originally tried the super glue and sand alone. It seemed strong but I just had a hard time filling bigger gaps. Seemed like I had to use a ton of sand, and it was tough to get the sand to stay where I needed it.
 
Meshmez said:
Im doing a hybrid on the scape I'm working on now.

1st: I'm using extra thick super glue gel and insta set to "tack" pieces in place. This sets up real quick and can hold a good amount of weight. This allows me to try different configurations, and easily break it back apart if I don't like it.

2nd: once I'm pretty confident in a section, I go back with epoxy putty in all the spots I can. The key here is keeping the surface of the epoxy wet while smoothing it into the rock. And working with small bits at a time, so it stays moldable.

3rd: cover the epoxy joints with the extra thin super glue and crushed up Marco rock dust. I also go in and fill other smaller joints I can find with this method.

I originally tried the super glue and sand alone. It seemed strong but I just had a hard time filling bigger gaps. Seemed like I had to use a ton of sand, and it was tough to get the sand to stay where I needed it.
Click to expand...
I broke my rocks apart to get shapes I wanted. I used the small pebble pieces to clog large holes, use some glue then sand. I clogged dozens of holes this way.
 
I used the Glue Masters Medium with sand and it works pretty good. Rocks have been underwater for around 6 months and still holding strong. I only dared to try on medium sized pieces.

Overall the time you save is huge considering these bonds dry in minutes.
 
fishy408 said:
I used the Glue Masters Medium with sand and it works pretty good. Rocks have been underwater for around 6 months and still holding strong. I only dared to try on medium sized pieces.

Overall the time you save is huge considering these bonds dry in minutes.
Click to expand...
I didn't try their medium. I tried an off brand and couldn't get a strong enough bond. I'm not surprised that the Gluemasters one worked though, their Thin glue cured considerably faster than anything else I tried.
 
grizfyrfyter said:
I heard about this a couple months ago from another reefer. I found a video from Tidal Gardens showing the technique and what rock structures they built with it.

I've used epoxy before, I didn't like it. I've used hydraulic cement before, I didn't like how long it took to cure and it took a couple hours to really solidify and I still had pieces fail. I used emarco 400 a lot, it takes a while to really harden and bond but it works well.

This method is hard within a minute and the bond is so strong, everytime I tried to break it, the rocks broke before the glue did.

I ordered a bottle of thin CA glue from gluemasters and broke up a bunch of rock that was in my garage. I also bought a 10lb bag of dry aragonite sand View attachment 36275

The technique is to position your rocks together, put some glue on both pieces and immediately put sand on top of the glue. Put more glue on the sand and cover with glue again. Another layer of glue then another layer of sand. Let sit for 45 seconds and it's done. Rock hard bond.

The connections are visible but not nearly as much as with epoxy or cement.
View attachment 36276View attachment 36278

Flip the rock over and do the other side.

I was able to do this rock work for my 100 gal tank in about 2 hours with less than 8oz of glue. View attachment 36281

I have also tried this with a few different brands of glue and it works fine. They didn't dry as fast, the longest I had to wait was about 5 min for a single connection before it was solid but that's still better than any other option. The key is you need THIN glue. Medium or Thick glue just doesn't work.
Click to expand...
I appreciate you walking us through this approach. I’ve never done it this way though I‘ve heard people mention it (with less detail).
 
Also, wear gloves. Not latex or nitrile gloves, they will just tear and leave pieces on the rocks. Wear light duty work gloves, heavy cleaning gloves might work.

You will want to do this in a well ventilated area unless you like killing braincells (though, there are much better way to accomplish this).
 
I'll add 3 trips from building my last scape to the thread. I used thick superglue for first assembly. Used glue and rock sand from breaking rocks into pieces at easily concealed sections that were pretty easy to connect and not be obvious. Most of the sections I used the 2 part epoxy covered in rock dust from the rock demo. Just sifted debris through a mesh cup used to make loose leaf tea.

My tips are the:
1 - I ran out of the gray or purple 2 part epoxy and went to Ultimate Aquarium for get another stick. They keep the gray/purple behind the counter and I didn't see it so I picked up a brown one in the FW section. Guy asked if I wanted the gray/purple one which was 1 or 2 dollars more. Since I was going to cover the joint in sand I didn't care and saved the 2 bucks. Well, I would defiantly recommend the brown. It is almost the same color as dried LR and way closer than gray/purple. I didn't bother to cover it in some areas. I never knew they had brown as I don't shop in FW sections typically. BRS should cary it for sure.

2 - The nice part of the epoxy is you can shape it into a strange irregular shape at the joint to match the rocks you have, like a little ridge, etc. Use rock toothpick to make it all bumpy and strange. The joints where I layer glue and sand come out more rounded and are obvious on a large joint, especially the texture. It will look fine when it eventually gets covered and not critical where you can't really see it, but I can see all 3 sides of a 2' cube so I appreciated the extra effort and cost.

3 - Elaborating on the texture, the fine rock dust on epoxy conceals the joint way better than the sand/glue. Few people have been by the house to pick up gear I am not using and none have noticed or even found the joints. Everyone points out this one area that looks different. It is actually a Florida LR I happened to reuse because I liked the shape and has a sand like appearance. That Florida Rock is like cement compared to Fiji rock.

There has to be at least 50+ glue joints in this photo. Can you see any?

IMG_2396.jpeg
 
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Once diatoms and algae started growing on the rocks, my connections are invisible.

I spent about $20 total to aqua scape a 100g tank and I guarantee (since I've used epoxy before) that the thin glue & sand method is a much stronger bond.

I don't know why you're adding tips to the tread when you're using a completely different method....
 
Sorry to Tread on your Thread then. Figured someone reading this might want other options possibly and doesn't want to depend on Diatoms to hide their work.
 
Anyone use the E Marco 400 kit?

www.bulkreefsupply.com

E-Marco-400 Aquascaping Mortar Complete Kit - Grey

100% Non-Toxic - Triton ICP Tested Have you ever wondered how they make those remarkable aquascape structures? MarcoRocks E-Marco-400 Aquascaping Kit is how! The kit includes everything you will need to create your own morter that is specially modified to keep the joints from becoming brittle in...
www.bulkreefsupply.com www.bulkreefsupply.com
 
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