Jeff Rehling
Guest
if you buy the full on Apex I don't think a 1link is required
WAV vs. Vortech vc. Gyre
- Thread starter Jeff Rehling
- Start date
Jeff Rehling
Guest
actually I think I'm wrong about that
Jeff Rehling
Guest
no, the Apex EB needs to have open 1link ports. it comes with three and I think the head unit plugs in with aqua bus, so no module would be required
I have 2 of the XF250’s.
They made huge improvements from gen1 to gen2, so probably worth seeing what improvements they’ve made for gen3.
rygh
Guest
It is interesting the Apex assembly is done here. A pleasant surprise.
Gyre produces a flat flow, only directionally adjustable in one axis, and at least old versions were noisy.
Vortech direction is not adjustable at all, and takes up space outside. Sometimes slide out of alignment.
What size tank?
Flow type?
Do you really need programmable speeds?
Do you have thick glass?
I have gone back to simple Tunze AC non programmable power heads.
Quiet, powerful, reliable, big magnets, good power efficiency, easily points any direction.
Gyre produces a flat flow, only directionally adjustable in one axis, and at least old versions were noisy.
Vortech direction is not adjustable at all, and takes up space outside. Sometimes slide out of alignment.
What size tank?
Flow type?
Do you really need programmable speeds?
Do you have thick glass?
I have gone back to simple Tunze AC non programmable power heads.
Quiet, powerful, reliable, big magnets, good power efficiency, easily points any direction.
grizfyrfyter
Guest
You need an EB832 (come with new apex and apexel) or a 1link if you have a classic and no EB832
jccaclimber
Supporting Member
Jeff,
If you want to compare I'm not far from you and I have a Gyre 230 and a pair of WAV pumps on my tank. I also have an MP40 sitting next to the tank I'd be happy to throw on to demo. Experience as follows:
~~~~~~~~~~ MP40 ~~~~~~~~~~
One isn't sufficient on my 170. A pair would be a good start, but even when I had an MP60 on it it wasn't enough IMHO.
+Doesn't put big wires in the tank.
+I like the flow cycles.
+US based company.
+Noise with the QD series is acceptable unless you want a silent tank, in which case none of these options are acceptable.
+Very broad flow pattern which I think is great.
+You can leave these in for years and never clean them.
+Good warranty support, often after the end of the warranty period.
-Cost (and not by a small margin).
-Inability to redirect flow, although this is less of an issue with the broad pattern.
-Additional controller such as Reeflink required to do multiple flow patterns through the day. A WXM can integrate this to an Apex, but it costs more than a Reeflink and can only handle 11 devices, which doesn't meet my needs.
-You really do need to mount the cord like they say to.
~~~~~~~~~~ Gyre ~~~~~~~~~~
The XF230 is about useless in my 170, a pair wouldn't be much better. A pair of XF 250's on one controller might do it. My limited direct experience with the Icecap version has not been positive in terms of flow or noise. I think it would do well with an XF280, but those are huge even if they don't stick out much (have them on my big tank).
+Very broad flow pattern.
+Low visual protrusion in the tank.
+Acceptable price range compared to Ecotech.
+Nice water resistant design for pump and electrical connectors.
-A bit of break in time to get quieter, and sometimes develop squeaks and noises over time.
-Bit of a reputation for breaking impeller blades. Not clear how it happens (snail, fatigue) , but I've replaced a lot of them. New ones supposed to be better, will see how that turns out.
-Not sure about Apex interfacing and I haven't messed with the programming much.
-Significant flow drop if you don't periodically clean them.
-History of in tank electrical insulation failures (most recent one I've had fail was new ~4 years ago, unsure if this is fixed).
-Cord in the tank.
-Not exactly locally owned.
~~~~~~~~~~ WAV ~~~~~~~~~~
I just added two of these so that I would have some experience with them, so consider that my experience is limited compared to the others that I've dealt with on numerous systems.
+Good warranty support (with receipt, do NOT expect it if you lose it).
+Excellent mounting system. Angle is easy to adjust, and they stay exactly where you put them. Almost too good as I can't slide them around to slightly reposition where I can't get to the back of my tank.
+Plugs directly in to the EB832 on the new Apex units. 3 ports. If you need more than 3 you could add a 1Link box, although at that point you'd probably have another EB832 anyways.
+Lots of flow
+Small plug in case you need to stuff it through a hole.
+Doesn't take up another outlet (or two).
+Feels very solid.
+Inherent ability to do time of day programming
+Similar noise levels to the options above. Louder than an XF230, but a ton more flow and I don't have my XF 280 or a QD MPx0 with me to compare. I suspect most people will be happy with the sound level.
+Local company.
I'm TBD to negative on the flow patterns. It may just be they didn't market them as nicely as Ecotech did, and I still need to read in to these a bit more.
-Narrow concentrated flow pattern. This is the major complaint. I may need to make a replacement 3d printed head to try to force it the flow pattern to broaden out.
-Very large presence in the tank.
-Cords in the tank.
-I don't like the plug, even if I do like its small size. Not as bad as the PMUP plug which I keep waiting to get ripped off of the board, but it isn't as robust as I'd like and I'd prefer to see a more water resistant design given that it isn't exactly a common plug (although at least it's a standard you can buy).
~~~~~~~~~~ Tunze ~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately I don't have significant experience with Tunze, although their stuff tends to be robust. There are not many unhappy Tunze customers out there, I just don't have much experience with their stuff due to what is common among the people I knew in DFW.
~~~~~~~~~~ Other ~~~~~~~~~~
I don't recommend Jebao/Jecod products as their durability is poor. From a strict dollars perspective you could buy three for the price of many of the items above, run each one until it breaks, and quite likely come out ahead. In many cases they continue working, but I've seen too many failures a year or two in, and too many failures less than 60 seconds out of the box (yes, really). For someone that doesn't mind tinkering with it and chooses to spend their valuable aquarium funds elsewhere I understand the decision. For me I expect my equipment to either last 10 years, or have good resale value at the point at which I plan to upgrade it. I want to spend my limited aquarium time feeding my fish and fragging my coral on my schedule. I don't want to spend it replacing one of my wave makers because it broke on its schedule. When I place it on a customer system back in Dallas neither I nor my customer want me to have to stop by because it broke, so I use more robust equipment.
If you want to compare I'm not far from you and I have a Gyre 230 and a pair of WAV pumps on my tank. I also have an MP40 sitting next to the tank I'd be happy to throw on to demo. Experience as follows:
~~~~~~~~~~ MP40 ~~~~~~~~~~
One isn't sufficient on my 170. A pair would be a good start, but even when I had an MP60 on it it wasn't enough IMHO.
+Doesn't put big wires in the tank.
+I like the flow cycles.
+US based company.
+Noise with the QD series is acceptable unless you want a silent tank, in which case none of these options are acceptable.
+Very broad flow pattern which I think is great.
+You can leave these in for years and never clean them.
+Good warranty support, often after the end of the warranty period.
-Cost (and not by a small margin).
-Inability to redirect flow, although this is less of an issue with the broad pattern.
-Additional controller such as Reeflink required to do multiple flow patterns through the day. A WXM can integrate this to an Apex, but it costs more than a Reeflink and can only handle 11 devices, which doesn't meet my needs.
-You really do need to mount the cord like they say to.
~~~~~~~~~~ Gyre ~~~~~~~~~~
The XF230 is about useless in my 170, a pair wouldn't be much better. A pair of XF 250's on one controller might do it. My limited direct experience with the Icecap version has not been positive in terms of flow or noise. I think it would do well with an XF280, but those are huge even if they don't stick out much (have them on my big tank).
+Very broad flow pattern.
+Low visual protrusion in the tank.
+Acceptable price range compared to Ecotech.
+Nice water resistant design for pump and electrical connectors.
-A bit of break in time to get quieter, and sometimes develop squeaks and noises over time.
-Bit of a reputation for breaking impeller blades. Not clear how it happens (snail, fatigue) , but I've replaced a lot of them. New ones supposed to be better, will see how that turns out.
-Not sure about Apex interfacing and I haven't messed with the programming much.
-Significant flow drop if you don't periodically clean them.
-History of in tank electrical insulation failures (most recent one I've had fail was new ~4 years ago, unsure if this is fixed).
-Cord in the tank.
-Not exactly locally owned.
~~~~~~~~~~ WAV ~~~~~~~~~~
I just added two of these so that I would have some experience with them, so consider that my experience is limited compared to the others that I've dealt with on numerous systems.
+Good warranty support (with receipt, do NOT expect it if you lose it).
+Excellent mounting system. Angle is easy to adjust, and they stay exactly where you put them. Almost too good as I can't slide them around to slightly reposition where I can't get to the back of my tank.
+Plugs directly in to the EB832 on the new Apex units. 3 ports. If you need more than 3 you could add a 1Link box, although at that point you'd probably have another EB832 anyways.
+Lots of flow
+Small plug in case you need to stuff it through a hole.
+Doesn't take up another outlet (or two).
+Feels very solid.
+Inherent ability to do time of day programming
+Similar noise levels to the options above. Louder than an XF230, but a ton more flow and I don't have my XF 280 or a QD MPx0 with me to compare. I suspect most people will be happy with the sound level.
+Local company.
I'm TBD to negative on the flow patterns. It may just be they didn't market them as nicely as Ecotech did, and I still need to read in to these a bit more.
-Narrow concentrated flow pattern. This is the major complaint. I may need to make a replacement 3d printed head to try to force it the flow pattern to broaden out.
-Very large presence in the tank.
-Cords in the tank.
-I don't like the plug, even if I do like its small size. Not as bad as the PMUP plug which I keep waiting to get ripped off of the board, but it isn't as robust as I'd like and I'd prefer to see a more water resistant design given that it isn't exactly a common plug (although at least it's a standard you can buy).
~~~~~~~~~~ Tunze ~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately I don't have significant experience with Tunze, although their stuff tends to be robust. There are not many unhappy Tunze customers out there, I just don't have much experience with their stuff due to what is common among the people I knew in DFW.
~~~~~~~~~~ Other ~~~~~~~~~~
I don't recommend Jebao/Jecod products as their durability is poor. From a strict dollars perspective you could buy three for the price of many of the items above, run each one until it breaks, and quite likely come out ahead. In many cases they continue working, but I've seen too many failures a year or two in, and too many failures less than 60 seconds out of the box (yes, really). For someone that doesn't mind tinkering with it and chooses to spend their valuable aquarium funds elsewhere I understand the decision. For me I expect my equipment to either last 10 years, or have good resale value at the point at which I plan to upgrade it. I want to spend my limited aquarium time feeding my fish and fragging my coral on my schedule. I don't want to spend it replacing one of my wave makers because it broke on its schedule. When I place it on a customer system back in Dallas neither I nor my customer want me to have to stop by because it broke, so I use more robust equipment.