What are you planning to bring to the Frag Swap ?

[Coral reefer]

Thats assuming we know exactly who is coming and not have any walk ins. Which means everyone will have to prepay and confirm that they will be coming.

Nobody is paying...the reason we wait until right before is so we know how many people came. No way to know that exact number until everyone is there already. Shouldn't take long to have 40-50 people reach in a bucket real quick.
Might not work as well for the bigger regional swap, but for this one it should be fine.

 

[Vhuang168]

So people will check in, registration will close, we count how many and make the groups equal.

Then everyone will then get their letters.

And that is preferable to just giving people letters as they check in, then adjust the groups by lumping 2 groups together if they are smaller?

If the BOD feels this is better, I have no problems doing that way.

 

[Coral reefer]

So people will check in, registration will close, we count how many and make the groups equal.

Then everyone will then get their letters.

And that is preferable to just giving people letters as they check in, then adjust the groups by lumping 2 groups together if they are smaller?

If the BOD feels this is better, I have no problems doing that way.

We have failed to make the right number of groups with equal people in the groups every time for a few years. I don't care how we do it, I would like to get it right however we do it. The way we have always done it before hasn't worked.

 

[Vhuang168]

Well, the BOD comes up with the way and we will do it that way.

No muss no fuss.

 

[Bruce Spiegelman]

Worth trying. As long as we have a head count as corals are checked in. I can't imagine it will take more than 5 minutes for everyone to pull a number right before we start. As long as the whole thing is organized it should be easy.

 

[JVU]

I make sure not to be the 1st few in during bonus round. I also stood around for a good 30 secs before picking anything up and actually pointed out coral for people looking for something in particular.

I think Eric took his time getting in as well.

We both also did not participate in all the rounds.

I spent most rounds looking for coral for others before taking something.

So please do not insinuate I take advantage over everyone else.


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I didn’t try insinuate anything negative at all, and I’m sorry it was interpreted that way.

What I said was:
A) Clearly the current setup doesn’t allow people time to look at the corals before they have to pick one in the first round or 2.
B) There is an obvious logical reason for this, which is to give a slight advantage to the people who contribute the most to swaps, which is bonus round members and coral setup crew. This is fine with me if it is intentional, since I actually think it makes sense to make sure that people who contribute more to the whole system working get at least a couple first-choice corals out of this. Especially considering that these folks usually won’t be wanting lots of corals.

So if this isn’t the reason for the current system and those in bonus rounds and coral setup don’t actually get the advantage they should, then there isn’t any reason to keep it the way it is besides inertia.

I suggested giving more time for round 1, and that still seems like an easy solution to me. Probably more time for bonus round 1 too I guess. This also addresses the issue that some coral you want is gone by the time your round comes, since the extra time is during your round.

 

[Wlachnit]

I suggest giving out the "Letters" once everyone has checked in. I also suggest/support having the first NON bonus round be a little longer. Keep in mind that this swap is smaller than our open swap.

 

[Kim Pattison]

As far as the peaking ahead of time I believe it is not a good idea. The only round that is will matter is the bonus round and bonus round people are general experience swaps and know what they are doing. All the other rounds it actually hurts the swapers. There is no way to know what is still left from the previous rounds and if you are in there looking for a particular coral you saw it will hurt your chance of getting something you want because you spent your time looking for something that is not there any more.

 

[Coral reefer]

As far as the peaking ahead of time I believe it is not a good idea. The only round that is will matter is the bonus round and bonus round people are general experience swaps and know what they are doing. All the other rounds it actually hurts the swapers. There is no way to know what is still left from the previous rounds and if you are in there looking for a particular coral you saw it will hurt your chance of getting something you want because you spent your time looking for something that is not there any more.

Thanks for the input. I don't totally agree with you, but good to hear other people's opinions either way.

 

[RandyC]

It's been an up in the air thing wether or not people get to pre view the tables beforehand. If so ten. I extra time needed. If not maybe first round slightly longer?
What do people think about checking out the tables before the first round?

I think previewing corals has some good benefits:

- It helps out newbies. When I went to my first swap, it was overwhelming and I didn't know what to pick because I didn't have the coral knowledge that I have now after 2 years of reefing. Trying to wrap my head around what was there, I usually just ended up grabbing whatever was in front of me as time wound down. I think this can (and will) lead to newbies getting things that may not work out in their tanks.
- It has potential to help speed up the rounds. Knowing what's out there will help people make their picks faster and hopefully rounds will end quicker than the actual allotted time. Pickers can create a mental list and go down it if it was already picked.

It's not clear to me why we don't let people see what is there. If everyone was allowed to go in and pick at once, I could see there being a huge advantage, but since we pick in groups and having snaking rounds, that advantage is fairly mitigated. I could see it being a logistic issue making sure people don't do shady stuff during the preview session, but institute a "look, but no touch rule." No touching any coral containers while looking otherwise you're penalized to move to last group or you lose your first round pick or something like that.

 

[Coral reefer]

I think previewing corals has some good benefits:

- It helps out newbies. When I went to my first swap, it was overwhelming and I didn't know what to pick because I didn't have the coral knowledge that I have now after 2 years of reefing. Trying to wrap my head around what was there, I usually just ended up grabbing whatever was in front of me as time wound down. I think this can (and will) lead to newbies getting things that may not work out in their tanks.
- It has potential to help speed up the rounds. Knowing what's out there will help people make their picks faster and hopefully rounds will end quicker than the actual allotted time. Pickers can create a mental list and go down it if it was already picked.

It's not clear to me why we don't let people see what is there. If everyone was allowed to go in and pick at once, I could see there being a huge advantage, but since we pick in groups and having snaking rounds, that advantage is fairly mitigated. I could see it being a logistic issue making sure people don't do shady stuff during the preview session, but institute a "look, but no touch rule." No touching any coral containers while looking otherwise you're penalized to move to last group or you lose your first round pick or something like that.

I agree with most of this. What do you mean by shady stuff? Hiding corals so only they can find them? Maybe we just have the swap police randomly move the containers on the tables before people pick after the (potential) pre viewing time?

 

[Ibn]

I like that look but not touch rule. I've seen too many instances when someone picks up a stack of corals and then move it around. It happens during picking rounds as well when people pick up a stack of corals and walk around with them while deciding. You're only gonna walk out with one of them, but they do it anyways, which prevents others from choosing the specific coral in their hands.

 

[Coral reefer]

I like that look but not touch rule. I've seen too many instances when someone picks up a stack of corals and then move it around. It happens during picking rounds as well when people pick up a stack of corals and walk around with them while deciding. You're only gonna walk out with one of them, but they do it anyways, which prevents others from choosing the specific coral in their hands.

We do have a rule about only holding one coral at a time while picking. If we see people not following this rule we will need to remind them of it.

 

[Bruce Spiegelman]

Besides if you're trying to get a few corals to last till later rounds so you can grab them just do what I do. I scratch a little note on the label that says, "Pests in tank, Dip VERY well."

 

[RandyC]

I agree with most of this. What do you mean by shady stuff? Hiding corals so only they can find them? Maybe we just have the swap police randomly move the containers on the tables before people pick after the (potential) pre viewing time?

Just about anything? Moving corals to places where they don't belong, smudging labels so they're unreadable...who knows what people will attempt. I'd like to think everyone attending wants to have a fair, equatable, and fun experience, but we know that not everyone thinks that way in this world.

 

[Fish Boss]

Just about anything? Moving corals to places where they don't belong, smudging labels so they're unreadable...who knows what people will attempt. I'd like to think everyone attending wants to have a fair, equatable, and fun experience, but we know that not everyone thinks that way in this world.

That’s unfortunate to think that someone would try to gain an advantage over others at such a positive event. I’m not going to be in rush to pick first/get the best coral, because I’m mainly going for the experience and enjoyment of the event. If I see a yellow sinularia though, I’m jumping on it! Lol

 

[JVU]

Having a longer first round doesn’t add any of these problems associated with previewing and solves the problem of not having enough time to look at the coral before your first pick. Keep it simple I say.

 

[RandyC]

Having a longer first round doesn’t add any of these problems associated with previewing and solves the problem of not having enough time to look at the coral before your first pick. Keep it simple I say.

I'm not a fan of this for a couple of reasons:

- I think any time limit aspect gives a sense of pressure and I don't think that would help with the newbies. I think having a preview session, gives time to look at the lay of the land and some time for research on phone to learn about the corals at the person's pace.
- As an "experienced" member, having a 30-45 minute first round doesn't sound enjoyable and I think it would actually make the swap take longer. The preview session could be open 10-30 minutes before swapping to slated to start. Sure you may miss a few coral from people checking-in during the preview session, but I see that as a minor problem.

 

[jorahx4]

How long are rounds?

Being new and knowing nothing about coral names. Or what they look like under lights. Will be difficult if we can’t preview first.


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[Bruce Spiegelman]

30 minutes! Count me out -- that would be absurd. I assumed we were talking about the first round being about 6 minutes instead of 4. I kind of like the idea of a 20 minute preview (no touch) better for one reason. It will really help members -- all of us, but especially newer members -- to decide what will work in their tank and discuss parameters. As the mission statement czar that fits right into our core club functions which are education and good husbandry.