Neptune Aquatics

Why do easy sps die in a new tank and why is coral so easy to grow after 18 months?

H2OPlayar said:
This thread is talking about my new tank specifically, but also in general that most people find success after 12-18 months into a tank, myself included with my old system. I tend to agree with Derek, that I have somewhat more knowledge and skills than your average reefer (maybe not average bar member though, we are special) with 8+ years of experience in reefing and constant listening to podcasts on the subject.

I think your average reefer isn't listening to 3-5 podcast episodes on reefs every day the way I do, because they have jobs and a life outside of reefing. Both of which I am lucky to be without.



Me! Maybe not always, but I miss my tank when I leave the house to go grocery shopping. Vacations are worse.


@Kensington Reefer Yeah, not looking good for Madeleine going to day care this year.



So what killed my monti's and birdsnest? There are a couple monti's that are dong well, but the 3 birdsnest frags dies in 3 weeks, and a few monti's didn't fare that well either. I test for all the basics and nothing is out of whack. Plus the 330 gallons of water offers some good stability.
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We were very lucky
Neither of mine had separation anxiety
They were more: bye, your embarrassing me
 
H2OPlayar said:
This thread is talking about my new tank specifically, but also in general that most people find success after 12-18 months into a tank, myself included with my old system. I tend to agree with Derek, that I have somewhat more knowledge and skills than your average reefer (maybe not average bar member though, we are special) with 8+ years of experience in reefing and constant listening to podcasts on the subject.

I think your average reefer isn't listening to 3-5 podcast episodes on reefs every day the way I do, because they have jobs and a life outside of reefing. Both of which I am lucky to be without.



Me! Maybe not always, but I miss my tank when I leave the house to go grocery shopping. Vacations are worse.


@Kensington Reefer Yeah, not looking good for Madeleine going to day care this year.



So what killed my monti's and birdsnest? There are a couple monti's that are dong well, but the 3 birdsnest frags dies in 3 weeks, and a few monti's didn't fare that well either. I test for all the basics and nothing is out of whack. Plus the 330 gallons of water offers some good stability.
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What I'd be really interested to see is if someone just does a partial swap of certain things, how often does it lead to failure.

For instance, I tore down my peninsula because we got our floors redone. I setup a rubbermaid tub (thanks @Srt4eric) with my corals, live rock, fish, all the water from my original tank (though later I added more), my same skimmer, a good chunk of the chaeto, same lights, and same powerheads. The one thing I didn't move over was my sand. I ended up tossing effectively all of it due to complexities and timing of the teardown.

I have had almost zero coral loss, and some things actually colored up even better than it was. So that'd imply the sand wasn't a sole contributing factor to that tank being stable.

If I did a 100% water change, with water that was salinity, temp, pH, alk, Ca, Mg, N, P matched, would it plausibly have had zero issue?

If I cycled a bunch of rock, had put that in the tank with fresh saltwater, and then moved only the coral & fish over, would it have been stable?

...

In the end that's the same concept as "what in an existing tank makes things grow", but a reductive approach vs an additive one. I would've thought it was sand played a big part, but given how big of temp/ph/nutrient swings I've seen my healthy frag tank go through with no effects I'd think it must be the rock.

However as a counter to that, my frag tank has a bare bottom and basically no rock, outside of a handful of pounds in the sump and in the display. That thing is incredibly resilient. So it can't be the rock?

I really wish I knew. Feels like it might be one of those situations where there's no individual reason, but the full reason is the aggregate of all those little differences. If you have a stable tank, it has a big bact pop which can feed SPS, and a bunch of fish producing ammonia at consistent (and controlled by bac) levels that the SPS can also consume without being overwhelmed. It also probably has stable lighting and pH and other params if only b/c you're no longer playing with it anymore.

And also it might be something really basic, like a long stable tank that has had SPS growing means you have nothing janky that will kill SPS. Eg proven no chloramine in your water or ...
 
This is one of my friends in LA. He use to be a huge staghorn guy. I posted this a long time ago. He answered this question in detail. If you guys care to read.
www.reef2reef.com

Why cant u keep sps?

Well first and for most im not a scientist or marine biologist my theory base only on my experience and observation on my reef tank. I just want to help those that have problems keeping sps. In this discussion please keep it positive and dont make it to “i know better than u or led is better...
www.reef2reef.com www.reef2reef.com
 
richiev said:
For instance, I tore down my peninsula because we got our floors redone. I setup a rubbermaid tub (thanks @Srt4eric) with my corals, live rock, fish, all the water from my original tank (though later I added more), my same skimmer, a good chunk of the chaeto, same lights, and same powerheads. The one thing I didn't move over was my sand. I ended up tossing effectively all of it due to complexities and timing of the teardown.


If I cycled a bunch of rock, had put that in the tank with fresh saltwater, and then moved only the coral & fish over, would it have been stable?
However as a counter to that, my frag tank has a bare bottom and basically no rock, outside of a handful of pounds in the sump and in the display. That thing is incredibly resilient. So it can't be the rock?
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I think its is the mature rock no matter how much because that seems to be the deciding factor on immediate success or not for many people, and that contains the multitude of bacteria and small organisms/eggs of those, sponges and others.

My new tank was prohibitively large to do all old rock and media.
 
Alexander1312 said:
I read this thread differently. I thought it was not talking about people being inexperienced but new tanks. But if your statement says that not being able to run a tank with successful SPS growth is a matter of knowledge (and skills) vs the tank age, then I tend to agree.

In fact, I find it almost more interesting to discuss why folks cannot easily/easier get that knowledge. I have my own thoughts why, but one is that the communication is often not clear and focused. Often because how folks acquired their knowledge in the past through trial and error, when SPS keeping was almost not possible.
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I run into people a lot of times that seem to have too much information. They often have trouble listening to or understanding any of the sources because they read and listen to them all. And then they pick and choose which ones they like and reinforce their own mind stories with the bits that jive with what they already think.
Can give people knowledge, but without experience what good is it? You need the experience to be able to understand and apply the knowledge. And that comes only by doing
 
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Coral reefer said:
I run into people a lot of times that seem to have too much information. They often have trouble listening to or understanding any of the sources because they read and listen to them all. And then they pick and choose which. It’s they like and reinforce their own mind stories with the bits that jive with what they think.
Can give people knowledge, but without experience what good is it? You need the experience to be able to understand and apply the knowledge. And that comes only by doing
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Definitely agree with this. There is so much information it's almost not helpful on certain subjects. Hard to know what to believe in the aftermath.
 
Man all this talk about how hard SPS is what keeps me from trying lol :( I have a couple starter pieces that have been doing good actually but been hesitant to go anything further. I get sad when coral dies so would be bummed out if I tried and it just died on me lol. So far hammers and torches have been kind to me so that’s what I’ve stuck with
 
I have found that certain SPS-namely birdsnest have croaked on me twice in that they were large colonies that just bit the dust.
I also was given two sps colonies in a raffle by @under_water_ninja when he first opened and tank was 6 months old and they just bloomed. First time bird nest croaked was 14 months and managed to save enough pieces to keep it going. The rock was kept in storage for two years from a previous tank. Water unregulated , circulation pump busted and not replaced..



Once two yrs ago and just recently (birdsnest coming back again I think). Lost a couple acros as well. All the major nutrients seemed ok at the time -running an ICP may show a deficiency or too much but since most of the coral was doing ok-no clue..

I will say though maybe 18 months ago I did an aquabiomics test for the heck of it and it tested positive (high) for vibrio. I never dosed abx and everything at the time seemed ok. But on occasion I wonder if it is still prevalent in the tank and whether responsible for a fish death or coral death if a specimen gets stressed for whatever reason.

Now that they have it so it takes a week vs month may run another test. With the last one it did reinforce trying to keep hands out of the tank as much as possible, wash hands thoroughly, and watch for any skin breaks before putting hands in the tank if I have too,

Short of it -I think there is a lot of biological fauna that makes/breaks the tank. Some sps hardier than others (my pavona and stylos just keep going!)
 
MarcosD said:
Man all this talk about how hard SPS is what keeps me from trying lol :( I have a couple starter pieces that have been doing good actually but been hesitant to go anything further. I get sad when coral dies so would be bummed out if I tried and it just died on me lol. So far hammers and torches have been kind to me so that’s what I’ve stuck with
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Give it a shot, some basic acros. Honestly some of them just die overnight normally from What I notice new ones die pretty quickly if they have a issue. Like within 2 weeks of getting them. Make it past that odds are much better they will do well.

Just my observations no expert advice lol.

Get a few different random sticks to try out. They do well start encrusting and growing new tips than maybe try some more fancy acros.
 
MarcosD said:
Man all this talk about how hard SPS is what keeps me from trying lol :( I have a couple starter pieces that have been doing good actually but been hesitant to go anything further. I get sad when coral dies so would be bummed out if I tried and it just died on me lol. So far hammers and torches have been kind to me so that’s what I’ve stuck with
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Try a Bill Murray. Get it from @RandyC and you can watch it turn from a beautiful deep rainbow red to the color of a dirty diaper. But it'll grow, I bet.

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RH5A2723.jpg
 
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RandyC said:
I dose Cherry Kool Aid powder. 1 Tbsp per 10gallons. Also a drop of FD&C Red #40 food dye once a day. :p
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Wow blast from the past I prefered Red dye #3. Did alota cast iron cherry cobblers in fire pits back in the days of boy scouts early 80's which was loaded with that dye..think #3 topped # 40 in cancer lab results eek!!
 
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