2 dead clownfish in my QT

[xcaret]

I've been reading on this thread, I honestly think the fish had a disease already. You have gone beyond the good care of the fish but the illness they suffered was too severe for them to handle even with medication.

 

[rygh]

Your fish were likely dying when you got them.
It happens a lot. Many many reasons.
Could be cyanide caught. Could be poor handling by LFS or Wholesaler. Could be disease.

You can put 2 small clownfish in a 5 gallon bucket, no bio-filter at all, just a heater and airstone,
and they will be fine for 2 days.
I do that all the time as part of "Tank Transfer Method" to get rid of ich.
So a nice 10G QT should be fine.

There are a lot of noob mistakes that can kill fish quickly, but I read your other post,
and it seems you did it all right.

 

[Vhuang168]

The dead fish looks like it was pretty thin. There also looked to be some discoloration on the body. Did you see them eat at the store?

 

[EasyBay Newbie]

I'd be happy to bag up a few MarinePure balls that have been in my sump for years.

That's a very generous offer. I'm a bit paranoid about putting anything wet I don't have to in a tank so I'll probably wait for a cycle with nitrifying bacteria + ghost feeding.

Did you see them eat at the store?

The tank had maybe 25 fish in it? The staff was showing me proper feeding techniques and squirted some mysis shrimps from a bottle as an example (Shrimps must not touch the bottom, just whatever they eat in 2 mins). I don't know if the fish I got specifically ate because it was a bit of a frenzy when they all rushed for the shrimps.

The store was very clean and it was highly recommended here on BAR so I'm not convinced that the fish were ill to begin with but maybe it was a new shipment from a wholesaler? I'll ping the store and see if they have any idea.

 

[rygh]

Did you test for Nitrite (with an I not Nitrate)
If you were mid-cycle, you could have no ammonia but already high Nitrite.

 

[EasyBay Newbie]

Did you test for Nitrite (with an I not Nitrate)

Yes many times and I've never seen any nitrite ever. I think maybe Tim's solution is balanced so you get a good ratio of nitrafying bacteria to convert nitrite to nitrate as soon as the nitrifying bacteria convert the ammonia to nitrite? I know in a normal cycle you see a nitrite spike when the nitrifying bacteria are established and the nitrafying bacteria begin to build. Maybe that's why I couldn't detect nitrites?

 

[Vincerama2]

It would be nice if LFS had a special sectioned off tank with many compartments/apartments in it. Then you could pay a deposit on fish and they would put your selected fish in that compartment and you could visit them every day for a week or so to observe them BEFORE they left the store. If it dies or doesn't eat, then you get your deposit back, otherwise you take them home.
Maybe even worth an extra $5-10 upcharge.

V

 

[rygh]

It would be nice if LFS had a special sectioned off tank with many compartments/apartments in it. Then you could pay a deposit on fish and they would put your selected fish in that compartment and you could visit them every day for a week or so to observe them BEFORE they left the store. If it dies or doesn't eat, then you get your deposit back, otherwise you take them home.
Maybe even worth an extra $5-10 upcharge.

V

For the higher end fish, you sometimes get that by default.
They do not sell fast, especially during the week.
Check it out late Sunday, buy early next Saturday.

 

[Kim Pattison]

Sent you a message

 

[Coral reefer]

Were the clowns the same exact size? This often leads to fighting. Wounds can lead to other issues like infection etc

 

[EasyBay Newbie]

Same size but small. I did not see any fighting.

 

[Vincerama2]

For the higher end fish, you sometimes get that by default.
They do not sell fast, especially during the week.
Check it out late Sunday, buy early next Saturday.

I actually consider almost all salt water fish to be "higher end". I mean, I go to Petsmart with my kids (I called it the Poor Man's Zoo, and they loved it as toddlers, and still like watching the dog grooming now at 11 years old) and all the freshwater fish are less than four bucks usually. With feeder goldfish being like 16 cents each. It's hard to find salt water fish for less than $20. Those two clowns maybe $40 together ... ?

OK, as for "higher end", I've seen those crazy flower horn fish sell for like $1500, especially to Chinese customers...

V

 

[EasyBay Newbie]

$40 together ... ?

$12 each. It's not so much about the cost but having wasted 2 lives...

 

[Bruce Spiegelman]

$12 each. It's not so much about the cost but having wasted 2 lives...

Awesome way of thinking -- and that's what BAR and other similar clubs and organizations were made for.

 

[Cruz Mc5]

It would be nice if LFS had a special sectioned off tank with many compartments/apartments in it. Then you could pay a deposit on fish and they would put your selected fish in that compartment and you could visit them every day for a week or so to observe them BEFORE they left the store. If it dies or doesn't eat, then you get your deposit back, otherwise you take them home.
Maybe even worth an extra $5-10 upcharge.

V

I’m fortunate to have that relationship with a LFS right now. My fish are separate and I get to go in and watch them whenever he’s open. Unfortunately not everyone gets that same opportunity though. I think I’m lucky because I’m going to be stocking my tank so it makes more sense financially, as he's bringing in several fish for me.

 

[Coral reefer]

It would be nice if LFS had a special sectioned off tank with many compartments/apartments in it. Then you could pay a deposit on fish and they would put your selected fish in that compartment and you could visit them every day for a week or so to observe them BEFORE they left the store. If it dies or doesn't eat, then you get your deposit back, otherwise you take them home.
Maybe even worth an extra $5-10 upcharge.

V

I don't think you understand the economics of a Lfs. $5-10? That would cover...the food I guess. There is also manpower, water, salt, power, and then any losses incurred. It would cost much more than $5-10 to work. @fishdoctor does actually qt his fish if that's what you're looking for btw.

 

[fishdoctor]

I don't think you understand the economics of a Lfs. $5-10? That would cover...the food I guess. There is also manpower, water, salt, power, and then any losses incurred. It would cost much more than $5-10 to work. @fishdoctor does actually qt his fish if that's what you're looking for btw.

That’s absolutely correct there is no way five or $10 comes anywhere close to paying for proper QT. Try adding $50 or more per fish, then it might be possible to break even or even make a small profit.. keeping in mind the full proper quarantine is 6+ weeks, during which time you may encounter issues which require more Energy time knowledge and money to resolve.
After doing my best to offer proper QT of my Fish retail for the last 2+ years I realize there’s just not a market for it as people are not willing to pay what it really costs, this is a good example of that. As such I’m no longer offering my quarantine service as a retail offering, only for my service clients as I always have. I’ve been sitting on clown fish that I’ve had quarantined for over a year and always somebody wants something that is not in stock in addition to the operating costs it’s just not reasonable for most LFS to offer anything other than a quick turnaround on their fish, yet a two week observational QT should be typically the minimum amount of holding time in my opinion. As a result of trying to offer this premium product and losing my business thousands of dollars over the past few years I have decided to not to continue offering QT to the public and I will also no longer be offering wild caught fish or corals to the public only captive bred fish and corals moving forward. My retail business plan is to continue to be an information resource and to offer workshops at least bi-monthly moving forward. For hobbyists this is your opportunity to learn as well as obtain great deals on sustainable animals.
Unfortunately I can’t keep going on losing money just because I have a high standard. I need to only offer what is reasonable for the clientele to be able to maintain long-term in good health and as such captive bred animals are the only option IMO. Always here to help and answer questions if you have them thanks for the kind words @coralreefer. Happy holidays all.


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[EasyBay Newbie]

Try adding $50 or more per fish, then it might be possible

I agree, for some people the QT process is part of the hobby and enjoyment. For others, the $50 premium might discourage them for the lower cost fish. Even if you're willing to pay $50/fish, you'd have to trust that the store made 0 cross-contamination mistakes. It's probably easier to quarantine at home.
That said, do some LFS quarantine corals? i.e: many smaller QT tanks and 1 frag tank where corals only enter the frag tank after X days (with no new additions) in the QT? Are fish necessary for corals to thrive? I ask because I always see a fish or two in frag tanks. I would absolutely pay a premium for quarantined frags due to the complexity of setting up a QT for corals. I also think it might scale better to quarantine frags?

 

[Coral reefer]

Yes you need fish for corals to live. They need nitrates and phosphates. You could add these in various other ways, but the easiest way is having fish living and eating.

 

[Julius Chen]

Can I just drop in some fish food every few days in the tank without fish but corals?