got ethical husbandry?

2019 Member Frag Swap - March 16

Are you attending

  • Yes

    Votes: 39 83.0%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 6 12.8%

  • No

    Votes: 2 4.3%
  • Total voters
    47
Well the basic premise behind frag swaps in general is to exchange corals so as we reduce our "footprint" on removing them from the wild. If you just get them from a store there's a very high likely hood they did come from the oceans and the store simply chopped up whatever wild caught stuff that they got from a particular wholesaler. And while yes all corals in our tanks at one point were in the ocean it's just a matter of letting them have some time to grow under artificial conditions first.

That said lets not blow this out of the water too much, the original poster who started this line of conversation did say they had some frags, maybe not many. The requirement is 3 different frags, not that you have to bring a lot of frags, so the original poster may in fact have enough to qualify it's just the swap rules have yet to posted with requirements etc. So lets not get ahead of ourselves.

And if the member is super new to the hobby, I'm not saying that's the case with pbh-reef, then encouragement to buy 3 random frags (whatever they can get for cheap) just so they can trade up and get more corals that may be of higher quality really shouldn't be encouraged either. Nothing happens fast in this hobby, if they are new let them buy a few frags from a store or have some donated by other members, or at the freebee table that is often there, lets see if you can grow out your frags such that you have enough to frag in 6 or so months when the next swap comes around. While I am by no means new to this hobby (been around since the club has), I'm in that same boat as newbies, I'm setting up new tanks while taking down old over the next few months, my new tank is not going to be ready for corals in a month so all I'm doing is dropping off stuff I feel is nice and helping out because this swap is actually local to me, sure I could grab a bunch of corals but my 300g fish bucket in my basement is good for growing anemones and mushrooms only (at most I may grab a mushroom if there are some nicer ones out there).
 
I like that thought process. Sustainability is key to this hobby. Like I said, I haven't been to a BAR swap before so this is new to me.

On the other hand, it is a community event so maybe we can find a balance between making sure people have a chance to participate and staying true to the roots of the event.

I wish I had enough frag stock. I'd donate a frag pack to any new supporting members who don't have corals to participate.
 
Well we do often have a freebe table that often has corals for new people who arent necessarily participating in the swap proper, so it is absolutely possible people come away with stuff even if they have nothing to give.
 
My first two swaps I had to buy frags from the lfs because I didn’t have anything of my own to frag. When I did have enough to frag, that’s what I did. My personal take on it would be a reflection of just that. If you can frag from your tank then you absolutely should take from your stock. I do not see a problem with the person that has none (either due to newness or catastrophe), buying what is needed to participate. I would say that if someone has the frags and for some reason just doesn’t want to use their own then I would have an issue.

I’m all for propagation and this is an excellent way to promote it but I think including someone who otherwise wouldn’t be able to participate would encourage them to participate the way you are wanting in the future.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Well we do often have a freebe table that often has corals for new people who arent necessarily participating in the swap proper, so it is absolutely possible people come away with stuff even if they have nothing to give.
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For me it's not so much about bringing corals home as it is about enjoying the swap. It's a unique experience and a lot of fun. I take my daughter to the Mars swaps and she picks all the corals for me, which I usually end up giving away to other people because she will pick 5 of the same thing.
 
One of the core principles of this club is to teach about sustainability and good husbandry. So yes -- we absolutely should strive to get members to bring corals they are successfully grow in their own aquariums. However, part of that core principle is "teach." We can't help them learn and expand their knowledge if they don't have corals to start with. Frag swaps are fun, lively and can be rewarding, but at every swap knowledge is also passed on. Hundreds of conversations from older member to new members imparting what works for them, what particular corals need and expanding the key principles of good husbandry to new hobbyists.

If part of our goal is education then people need a place to start. As members they have already taken that step by using their dollars to join us. We should work diligently to make sure every member has that chance. If their tank is young or if they've had a disaster it is part of our core principles to help them. Making them second class "members" doesn't do that. On the other hand, we can't "punish" old members by having less corals available by giving some folks a free run at it. BUT -- if you believe the club has a goal then older members need to step forward to expand this hobby in the area and to achieve our goals.

For the last five swaps I have brought (as do many) roughly 15 frags to swap. Part of them have been pre-determined to go to a new member that contacted me or posted they didn't have anything. For the record, none of these members have needed help more than once. Usually it just takes one swap to get them going, but even if it took a year or so that would be fine by me. I also bring a few sets extra that I have the folks that do the check-in set aside in case anyone shows up "just to watch." Doing that my corals have gone to kids and adults just getting started and fired up their interest in learning more and continuing on.

So, I believe, that everyone should be encouraged to come and participate fully. Let then know that if they are new, just getting started or have an immature tank or a tank restart that the club has their back. Is their a chance that one of two folks take advantage of this and do it a few times? Probably -- but who cares. The benefits of outreach to a wider group of new blood outweigh a few people who abuse the system.

Don't build a wall that has to climbed to get into the club. Let's reach out and encourage people to come in. I'd rather see a requirement that members that have been part of the club for more than three years have to bring six corals to participate in order to help others than force new members just to watch, participate in only part or scare them off altogether.

For any new members out there reading this -- welcome. We want you to enjoy the club. I've got your back. PM me and I'll have a pack for you.
 
Good read Bruce, and FYI there is a world of difference (IMHO) about a member giving corals to someone to get them admission versus just going to a store and buying 3 to get in. One fosters the idea that we have generous members of the club who want to give others a "leg up" to get started (into this money pit of a hobby) and the other says "well if I spend $30 at store X I can get possibly a half dozen corals at the swap"

I can't speak for the intention behind what the other Mike was saying, but for me it was definitely trying to squash the idea to pay a store so you can get admission to our swap, I mean if that's the case then why not have an option to pay the club directly and the club can use that money to buy and propagate corals that we feel should be in the swap (which was done in some fashion in the past FYI), especially if a store sells said person some green star polyps, pulsing xenia and kenya tree, all of which are not allowed into the swap (but freebee table is good to go) and then that member just spent $30 on corals that still won't let them in the swap. I'm all for supporting your LFS (if you truly have one that is local) but not as an admission ticket to the swap.
 
I’m really bummed I’m missing the first SF members swap. Having just travelled to Chabot for a soccer tournament (child’s not mine), I don’t miss doing the drive.

Maybe this will be a new trend.

Btw, I’ve been a BAR member off and on for over a decade. I’ve really appreciated all the support over the years from different club members. It’s fun to see that even though it’s been a while since I’ve been active, there are still many names I recognize here.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Good read Bruce, and FYI there is a world of difference (IMHO) about a member giving corals to someone to get them admission versus just going to a store and buying 3 to get in. One fosters the idea that we have generous members of the club who want to give others a "leg up" to get started (into this money pit of a hobby) and the other says "well if I spend $30 at store X I can get possibly a half dozen corals at the swap"

I can't speak for the intention behind what the other Mike was saying, but for me it was definitely trying to squash the idea to pay a store so you can get admission to our swap, I mean if that's the case then why not have an option to pay the club directly and the club can use that money to buy and propagate corals that we feel should be in the swap (which was done in some fashion in the past FYI), especially if a store sells said person some green star polyps, pulsing xenia and kenya tree, all of which are not allowed into the swap (but freebee table is good to go) and then that member just spent $30 on corals that still won't let them in the swap. I'm all for supporting your LFS (if you truly have one that is local) but not as an admission ticket to the swap.
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Yes, this exactly. Hopefully we will have vendors at the regional swap with captively propagated frag packs people can buy for entry.
I am not interested in excluding anyone. I don’t want store bought corals being brought to the members only swap. I want to encourage captive propagation and knowledge about the corals we are sharing. If supporting members need help we will find ways to help them like Bruce said.
 
Hey everyone - I was mostly excited to have a BAR event in SF to meet people and learn from them. I don't have a car so it is hard to get out to farther parts of the Bay. Happy to come with whatever frags I have, I may be able to frag some dragon eye zoas but will need to do some research on how to frag. I see Bruce Spiegelman and grizfyrfyter may be willing and able to donate some frags to me, if that happens that would be amazing but its also ok for me to get some free frags. Coral reefer has inspired me to update the thread I started when I first got the tank in August. I'll do that now: http://www.bareefers.org/forum/threads/a-good-little-tank.23466/

Looking forward to seeing everyone next month!
 
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pbh-reef said:
Hey everyone - I was mostly excited to have a BAR event in SF to meet people and learn from them. I don't have a car so it is hard to get out to farther parts of the Bay. Happy to come with whatever frags I have, I may be able to frag some dragon eye zoas but will need to do some research on how to frag. I see Bruce Spiegelman and grizfyrfyter may be willing and able to donate some frags to me, if that happens that would be amazing but its also ok for me to get some free frags. Coral reefer has inspired me to update the thread I started when I first got the tank in August. I'll do that now: http://www.bareefers.org/forum/threads/a-good-little-tank.23466/

Looking forward to seeing everyone next month!
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Even if events are outside SF, people are always offering carpool. Ask about carpool in the thread of the event you are interested in attending. Also, we are planning another coral propagation workshop this year and I highly recommend you attend to learn about fragging. In the meantime, watch a couple of fragging videos on YouTube. Hope to see you at the swap.
 
New for this year. If you are a member that would like to participate and find yourself with no corals to share, we have decided to let those members participate in the frag swap after the 3rd round. So, no need to buy frags from your LFS or get them from a fellow member. Given that this is a member swap, we expect plenty of frags to go around.
 
Wlachnit said:
New for this year. If you are a member that would like to participate and find yourself with no corals to share, we have decided to let those members participate in the frag swap after the 3rd round. So, no need to buy frags from your LFS or get them from a fellow member. Given that this is a member swap, we expect plenty of frags to go around.
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Very cool! So appreciative of this community right now ☺️
 
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