Alexander1312
Supporting Member
You mean only the two ATLAS but not the Helix?
Alex’s IM 150 EXT
- Thread starter Alexander1312
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You mean only the two ATLAS but not the Helix?
requiem
Supporting Member
I thought I recognized this coral! It's cool to think this coral lives on with the members that got frags including myself.
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
Oh they're all on? It looks so dark. Must be camera settings
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
Yeah, agree, the pictures seem indeed dark. But it has been ramping down already. Will need to improve my camera game.
Edited now.
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Alexander1312
Supporting Member
I barely take a video of the tank but did it now for someone else. Thought I would share here too.
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
Fauna Marin ICP results from February 21, 2025:
A plus this time was that the sample arrived 6 days after sending it to Germany, and they provided the results the next day (Friday to Friday). Shipping was a major drawback in the past but it looks like that the Los Angeles collection point improved this now. I wish we had a collection point in SF though (hint
), which would potentially reduce the turnaround time by another two days. Also, costs are still acceptable with approx 45 USD including shipping (if 6 ICP tests are being purchased).
The results themselves were a mixed bag - see attachement.
A plus this time was that the sample arrived 6 days after sending it to Germany, and they provided the results the next day (Friday to Friday). Shipping was a major drawback in the past but it looks like that the Los Angeles collection point improved this now. I wish we had a collection point in SF though (hint
), which would potentially reduce the turnaround time by another two days. Also, costs are still acceptable with approx 45 USD including shipping (if 6 ICP tests are being purchased). The results themselves were a mixed bag - see attachement.
- Salinity - I have been very disappointed with the salinity being off by quite a bit which made me now decide to buy a hygrometer. If the salinity is off, many other parameters are off too. It is helpful that their report shows the parameters once the salinity issues are fixed.
- Calcium - Too high but I liked that the results matched my own salifert CA testing results by only 8mg/l. A simple, inexpensive and important test which seems rather accurate.
- Strontium - continues to be too low despite heavy dosing. Same issue with Fluoride. Further increased my dosing amounts of these.
- Copper and Nickel continue to show up at 0. While some parameters are ok to be at 0 since the ICP OES cannot detect them until elevated, these should show up. I will add the MS feature to the next test once available as an upgrade (expected soon). Selenium is also 0 but less concerning, but will still increase the dosing amounts.
- Magnesium continues to be at a very nice level despite no specific dosing of MG, except through magnesium sulfate to increase the sulfur amount in the water up to 950 mg/L. Which obviously had some impact. Still, I do not think I need to dose MG in general to keep it up, other than regular water changes.
What's your pH graph look like? Also have you tried a new probe?Fauna Marin ICP results from February 21, 2025:
A plus this time was that the sample arrived 6 days after sending it to Germany, and they provided the results the next day (Friday to Friday). Shipping was a major drawback in the past but it looks like that the Los Angeles collection point improved this now. I wish we had a collection point in SF though (hint
The results themselves were a mixed bag - see attachement.
The remaining question is what causes my low PH, but until most of the critical traces are dialed in, I cannot really tell. Also, I would like for at at least one MS result to rule out that some traces are truly not bottomed out.
- Salinity - I have been very disappointed with the salinity being off by quite a bit which made me now decide to buy a hygrometer. If the salinity is off, many other parameters are off too. It is helpful that their report shows the parameters once the salinity issues are fixed.
- Calcium - Too high but I liked that the results matched my own salifert CA testing results by only 8mg/l. A simple, inexpensive and important test which seems rather accurate.
- Strontium - continues to be too low despite heavy dosing. Same issue with Fluoride. Further increased my dosing amounts of these.
- Copper and Nickel continue to show up at 0. While some parameters are ok to be at 0 since the ICP OES cannot detect them until elevated, these should show up. I will add the MS feature to the next test once available as an upgrade (expected soon). Selenium is also 0 but less concerning, but will still increase the dosing amounts.
- Magnesium continues to be at a very nice level despite no specific dosing of MG, except through magnesium sulfate to increase the sulfur amount in the water up to 950 mg/L. Which obviously had some impact. Still, I do not think I need to dose MG in general to keep it up, other than regular water changes.
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
A depressing chart.
Both PH probes in this tank were replaced in early December during my annual replacement routine and showed the same results with the Hydros and Milwaukee controllers. I wish it was a technical issue, but it does look to show the actual PH, sadly
. I am using the same probe in the nano tank which shows up to 0.2 higher PH, so CO2 levels in the house are also not the issue (although it does go up slightly with windows open due to better weather, which is as expected).CO2 levels inside the tank show to be outside the desired range, as per the above ICP, so this is most likely the issue. What is driving the high CO2 levels is unclear to me. I read yesterday that denitrification increases PH. Also, the anaerobic bacterial activity resulting from the deeper substrate and disturbing the substrate (which I do weekly), can cause these higher CO2 levels.
The good from not using PH-enhancing techniques is that PH issues are transparent and not covered up. The bad is that I see this daily and I am not happy with it.
what are you trying to achieve? i wouldnt chase numbers in this hobby, you'll have more headache trying to achieve something that not necessary if your tank is already thriving.
i suggest, if you are running a fuge, run the lights opposite to your dt lights to get your drops closer.
i suggest, if you are running a fuge, run the lights opposite to your dt lights to get your drops closer.
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Alexander1312
Supporting Member
I did remove my refugium several months ago. Same as with Kalkwasser and the CO2 scrubber. I explained why in this journal and several other posts but the bottom line is that it prevents us from seeing how the tank is really doing on its own. A reef tank should achieve easily, if managed well, a PH above 8.2 at the end of the photo period. It is basically an assessment of how well you are running without permanently wearing an oxygen mask.
I am chasing several numbers such as correct salinity of 35 PSU, PH to climb above 8.2 (which it easily reached and much higher by using the above items), major elements within my desired range, and lately minor/trace elements. With all of these dialed in eventually, my goal is to ensure excellent coral health and sustainable growth, not just strong growth with a brittle skeleton or the need to, e.g., fix things later with antibotics.
A depressing chart.
Both PH probes in this tank were replaced in early December during my annual replacement routine and showed the same results with the Hydros and Milwaukee controllers. I wish it was a technical issue, but it does look to show the actual PH, sadly
CO2 levels inside the tank show to be outside the desired range, as per the above ICP, so this is most likely the issue. What is driving the high CO2 levels is unclear to me. I read yesterday that denitrification increases PH. Also, the anaerobic bacterial activity resulting from the deeper substrate and disturbing the substrate (which I do weekly), can cause these higher CO2 levels.
The good from not using PH-enhancing techniques is that PH issues are transparent and not covered up. The bad is that I see this daily and I am not happy with it.
View attachment 67027
What makes you think it’s not the co2 in your home? Do you have a co2 monitor?
My PH is so strongly correlated with the co2 in my home (I am using a monitor) that it seems to be basically the only input.
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
Yeah, unfortunately, lower ambient CO2 does not fix it. I have two different CO2 monitors (airthings wave, and the Aranet4Home) and we are normally between 500 and 600 ppm when windows need to be closed, and in the low 400s with windows open. PH improves, but not by much.
Science says that co2 in the water will equalize with co2 in the air. I just don’t see how the co2 in the air is not a significant factor.
I noticed a pretty significant impact on my PH between 400 and 600 - and it can take a few days to adjust. Perhaps you haven’t given it enough time? scientifically speaking the only thing that could be happening is your tank is producing co2 faster than it can equalize with the air around it - in which case you simply need more aeration.
Henry’s Law
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
Science is always right, but it is not helpful in this scenario, as it is a bit more complicated than that—still partially correct—and does not solve the issue; it just explains what happens.
The tank has an oversized skimmer and four gyres, two of which produce a highly agitated surface (borderline to splash water). However, it does seem to make more CO2 than it can equalize with the air - even at long periods of low ambient CO2 (several days). This issue amplifies when I dose carbon, so I assume it is the bacteria on the surfaces of the rocks (and sand) that produce a disproportionate amount of CO2.
I tend to blame the heavy PNS Pro bio dosing when I started the tank. Removing the rocks would most likely help resolving the issue, but I am not willing to do that yet. Another potential reason could be an iron deficiency, but I do not want to dose it individually since it precipates out very quickly - I am still thinking about it and might just try.
I am curious how folks' true PH is when they stop dosing either kalk, a refugium or CO2 scrubber. My nano tank reaches almost 8.2 on its own, which is my goal for this tank.
Before the blip (tank move) I had the nighttime refugium and kalk on my 29g. Haven't set up the kalk dosing or fuge light. Not much of a peak difference, just troughs at night now, even with a significant die off of stuff:
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
This is still a new tank. Also, not many rocks in there (yet) - which is good. And, I do not think you keep a ton of fish in your tank. If you can keep the PH like this for another year without add ons, then will need talk
.
RandyC
Supporting Member
Without a fuge, my pH was usually 7.7 to (maybe) 8.0. With a fuge, max was usually 8.1-8.2. With a CO2 scrubber, it sometimes gets too high (max around 8.5). I have 2 adults and 3 kids in the house though.
Randy’s Innovative Marine 75 Ext
Maybe get some sand or rocks from @thephoreefer post treatment to ensure good bacteria have a leg up? If you're going scorched earth on all the gram-negative bacteria, they're pretty much all starting out at the same levels after treatment. I have noticed that cipro definitely does not...
www.bareefers.org
If you have enough gas exchange occurring within your tank and your ambient air CO2 level is low, the amount of CO2 produced in the tank should not be an issue as it will equalize with the low-CO2 ambient air. Try the cup test with an air stone or a wavemaker breaking the surface of the water. Or on a warmer day, open the windows, turn on your skimmer pump on the highest setting and set the drain port on skimmer wide open.
Not really new, it's almost 20 years old. Same rocks, corals, old sand, but moved the clowns, pink streak, and the spotted mandarin out. There's some rotting encrusting cyphastrea, dead bristleworms, and dead coralline too. Plus whatever small things I can't see. Skimmer is pulling out a ton but the corals look fine. Still surprising the pH is this high given this is a worst case scenario.This is still a new tank. Also, not many rocks in there (yet) - which is good. And, I do not think you keep a ton of fish in your tank. If you can keep the PH like this for another year without add ons, then will need talk