Jestersix

Another rant on testing

L

L/B Block

Supporting Member
BARcard
So I got back my recent ICP test-
Apart from informing that my dosing of trace elements way too high (iodine nearly 3x and strontium 2x from indicated desired level per ATI) -
The Hanna PO4 and NO3 testers no where even close and the trident alk off by .7 DKH-
ICP came back with 9.x while trident reports 8.5

I realize they are all hobbyist grade tools but it is still annoying all the same.

Rant over..

Overall tank is ok but def lost a couple corals here and there and two fish of recent.
Is it due to the trace elements being too high-maybe.. reducing dose to 1/10th for now..
 
I don't think anyone actually trusts trident results and really just use them for trends.

Po4 continues to get consumed in the test tube on the way to the ICP by bacteria. At least that is the common take on why those results are always lower on the ICP. I find this to be true for me too, but it's typically lower by about the same amount each time.

My iodine has also been crazy high from using Isol8 MT - if that's what you are using I'd back way off!
 
Up to this point the alk was much closer in line with ICP -but generally I just use it for trends..

As to PO4- good to know that..
As to NO3 -Hanna came in 1/2 as high as ICP

As to trace elements -I use tropic Marin and yes I am cutting way way back for now..
 
Fluorine or flouride? It lists Fluorine at 1.05 (ATI lists desired at 1.23)

But strontium came in at 13.7 (ideal is 7.66)
Iodine came in at 181! Ideal is about 60 per ATI.

Cut dose substantially and may do a substantial water change.. or two
 
L/B Block said:
Fluorine or flouride? It lists Fluorine at 1.05 (ATI lists desired at 1.23)

But strontium came in at 13.7 (ideal is 7.66)
Iodine came in at 181! Ideal is about 60 per ATI.

Cut dose substantially and may do a substantial water change.. or two
Click to expand...
My iodine peaked at nearly 400, and it’s still 250+
 
L/B Block said:
Fluorine or flouride? It lists Fluorine at 1.05 (ATI lists desired at 1.23)

But strontium came in at 13.7 (ideal is 7.66)
Iodine came in at 181! Ideal is about 60 per ATI.

Cut dose substantially and may do a substantial water change.. or two
Click to expand...
Haha, love to mix up the German and English spelling, sorry. Impact of high Iodine is greater if your F is low so this is not too bad but needs to come down soon. Should not exceed 150 ug/l.

Agree with their recommendation on strontium and Iodine, which are pretty much NSW values.

Easy to lower high Iodine levels by adding F. I was able to cut my Iodine in half from 125 to 55 ug/l in two weeks but just targeting a 1.3 or slightly below F level. I was trying to explain this to Derek but he bullied me out of his journal haha , and now he is still that high without impact (for now).
 
Alexander1312 said:
Haha, love to mix up the German and English spelling, sorry. Impact of high Iodine is greater if your F is low so this is not too bad but needs to come down soon. Should not exceed 150 ug/l.

Agree with their recommendation on strontium and Iodine, which are pretty much NSW values.

Easy to lower high Iodine levels by adding F. I was able to cut my Iodine in half from 125 to 55 ug/l in two weeks but just targeting a 1.3 or slightly below F level. I was trying to explain this to Derek but he bullied me out of his journal haha , and now he is still that high without impact (for now).
Click to expand...
Lol if my tank looked anything like @derek_SR i wouldn’t care about what any number said. Forget them lol the rest of the world could be wrong when you have visual results like his tank shows.
 
Alexander1312 said:
Depends on your success horizon in my opinion.
Click to expand...
No argument on my part meant as a jest only. What would be your view of success? Since you bring it up.

I can think a few members here who have tanks and corals that currently seems almost impossible for me to get to that point in success gauging by where I'm currently at.
 
I’m on the road to ruin!!

RH5A1626.jpeg


@Alexander1312 how are your Tenuis looking? Let’s see some pics! Maybe mine would be happier with more fluoride….jk

@MichaelB there are a lot of different ways to have success in the hobby. There are beautiful tanks out there with a variety of approaches to husbandry. Some of have been running for many many years. Even ones that have trace elements a little too high or a little too low, I promise.

I am teasing Alex but I do sincerely respect his approach, even though mine is very different.
 
MichaelB said:
No argument on my part meant as a jest only. What would be your view of success? Since you bring it up.

I can think a few members here who have tanks and corals that currently seems almost impossible for me to get to that point in success gauging by where I'm currently at.
Click to expand...

I am just squinting when high parameters are being adveritsed as acceptable. It is my believe that that success comes from discipline in this hobby and I feel too many arguments are made that this is not needed. There are some that can see parameter swings by just looking at a polyp shape and know how to counter this, but this cannot be the baseline recommendation for public following.

I am in a couple of member-only groups in Europe, and they have some amazing tanks. None of them claim they just let the parameters go anywhere. In fact, the sentiment there is that the US should produce far more successful tanks than it does, given the much larger market size, specifically long-term successful tanks.

Generally, I am against Kalkwasser, in favor of dialing in your major and minor elements, watching PH, and water changes with a quality salt, of which there are not too many good ones. This should produce great results in the long term. But what do I know, I run two Reefis over a 150 gallon tank and try to grow acros....
 
derek_SR said:
Nope, not at all. I stopped dosing that trace product and would like it to come down, but I’m going to just let it happen naturally via AWC. Switched to TM a/k elements.
Click to expand...
Just realize they pack a punch too! I started with the recommended dosing amount- I’d recommend a 1/3 to start with.

Probably will do the same with letting it come down with my daily AWC.
 
Alexander1312 said:
I am just squinting when high parameters are being adveritsed as acceptable. It is my believe that that success comes from discipline in this hobby and I feel too many arguments are made that this is not needed. There are some that can see parameter swings by just looking at a polyp shape and know how to counter this, but this cannot be the baseline recommendation for public following.

I am in a couple of member-only groups in Europe, and they have some amazing tanks. None of them claim they just let the parameters go anywhere. In fact, the sentiment there is that the US should produce far more successful tanks than it does, given the much larger market size, specifically long-term successful tanks.

Generally, I am against Kalkwasser, in favor of dialing in your major and minor elements, watching PH, and water changes with a quality salt, of which there are not too many good ones. This should produce great results in the long term. But what do I know, I run two Reefis over a 150 gallon tank and try to grow acros....
Click to expand...


I'll admit I've watch dozens of vidoes about minor elements, and i'm still as clueless as when I watched that first one. I tend to follow along on the conversations about different dosing methods and trends more out of the general intrest in reefing knowledge.

I've only ever tried esv 2 part and esv mag. For the most part i use all for reef.

For their lower cost and easy of understanding the dosing.

Due to cost i typically just run with reef crystals. I have seen many vidoes and forum posts about this brand over that brand but the costs of various salts won't allow me to freely experiment as I might do if cost was never a issue. Yet as mentioned above the topics of different salts are of intrest to me in the most general sense.
 
Alexander1312 said:
I am just squinting when high parameters are being adveritsed as acceptable. It is my believe that that success comes from discipline in this hobby and I feel too many arguments are made that this is not needed. There are some that can see parameter swings by just looking at a polyp shape and know how to counter this, but this cannot be the baseline recommendation for public following.

I am in a couple of member-only groups in Europe, and they have some amazing tanks. None of them claim they just let the parameters go anywhere. In fact, the sentiment there is that the US should produce far more successful tanks than it does, given the much larger market size, specifically long-term successful tanks.

Generally, I am against Kalkwasser, in favor of dialing in your major and minor elements, watching PH, and water changes with a quality salt, of which there are not too many good ones. This should produce great results in the long term. But what do I know, I run two Reefis over a 150 gallon tank and try to grow acros....
Click to expand...
I don’t think high iodine is probably recommended due to its potential toxicity to fish and corals as well as strontium. Just how toxic I think is subject to debate.

@derek_SR sees no impact and I have seen a few acros as well as couple other softies perish as well as one wrasse -directly related? Can’t tell.

But prob doesn’t help.
Fended off using kalk for as long as I could but PH def was falling way too far and just can’t figure out why exactly. Best guess is that the cabinet housing does a poor job of oxygen exchange perhaps although for nearly two years it was fine…

I try to keep parameters in the “safe” zone and usually I find corals thrive nicely when I do.
 
Alexander1312 said:
I am just squinting when high parameters are being adveritsed as acceptable. It is my believe that that success comes from discipline in this hobby and I feel too many arguments are made that this is not needed. There are some that can see parameter swings by just looking at a polyp shape and know how to counter this, but this cannot be the baseline recommendation for public following.

I am in a couple of member-only groups in Europe, and they have some amazing tanks. None of them claim they just let the parameters go anywhere. In fact, the sentiment there is that the US should produce far more successful tanks than it does, given the much larger market size, specifically long-term successful tanks.

Generally, I am against Kalkwasser, in favor of dialing in your major and minor elements, watching PH, and water changes with a quality salt, of which there are not too many good ones. This should produce great results in the long term. But what do I know, I run two Reefis over a 150 gallon tank and try to grow acros....
Click to expand...

Never have I said it’s good to just let parameters go anywhere or advocated for a lack of discipline. I test Alk every 12 hours, carefully manage po4 via diluted lanthanum solution and frequent Hanna testing, and religiously send an ICP once a month. I change 3g of water per day and obsess over light and flow.

My approach to husbandry is intentional and very disciplined, I assure you. But I’m not going to stress over iodine being a little high if the tank looks great. I think it’s VERY common to “oversteer” in this hobby. And the reality is we only understand about 10% of what is actually going on in our tanks - and so you MUST trust intuition and how the tank looks to some extent.

I know I seem very laid back about my tank - and in many respects I am, but not others. I take education very seriously and consume a LOT of reefing content in an effort to learn. There’s a lot of bullshit out there, though, and you have to choose what you want to subscribe to and follow a plan. Mine is working for me, but I acknowledge it’s not the only way.
 
Last edited:
derek_SR said:
I’m on the road to ruin!!

View attachment 60667

@Alexander1312 how are your Tenuis looking? Let’s see some pics! Maybe mine would be happier with more fluoride….jk

@MichaelB there are a lot of different ways to have success in the hobby. There are beautiful tanks out there with a variety of approaches to husbandry. Some of have been running for many many years. Even ones that have trace elements a little too high or a little too low, I promise.

I am teasing Alex but I do sincerely respect his approach, even though mine is very different.
Click to expand...
Nice acro!
 
derek_SR said:
Never have I said it’s good to just let parameters go anywhere or advocated for a lack of discipline. I test Alk every 12 hours, carefully manage po4 via diluted lanthanum solution and frequent Hanna testing, and religiously send an ICP once a month. I change 3g of water per day and obsess over light and flow.

My approach to husbandry is intentional and very disciplined, I assure you. But I’m not going to stress over iodine being a little high if the tank looks great. I think it’s VERY common to “oversteer” in this hobby. And the reality is we only understand about 10% of what is actually going on in our tanks - and so you MUST trust intuition and how the tank looks to some extent.

I know I seem very laid back about my tank - and in many respects I am, but not others. I take education very seriously and consume a LOT of reefing content in an effort to learn. There’s a lot of bullshit out there, though, and you have to choose what you want to subscribe to and follow a plan. Mike is working for me, but I acknowledge it’s not the only way.
Click to expand...
How long have you been dosing LC for?
My understanding is that it’s not good dosing LT but perhaps not?

I really don’t like GFO as I can’t control the PO4 and always concerned about the dust. Right now PO4 is about .5 but would like to get it lower…
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top