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APEX Fail?

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I just was looking at Facebook and came across this post from Danilo Tj Magallanes. He had one of the best looking tanks and looks like he lost all of it to either an APEX fail or mis-understanding what the product can do... So thought will post here for those who didn't see it or don't use Facebook.

"Anyone else here had any issues with APEX? I lost my tank due to APEX not performing as advertised. Spent hours on the phone with a technician who finally set up a 3rd party software to monitor tank power. Apparently apex does NOT alert you about a power failure until power is restored. To me that is false advertising. I was told when I puchased my set up that APEX monitors your tank and notifies if there are any issues. In reality, it does not unless you set up Reeftronics software. This software issue cost me a massive loss in the realm of 15k. You know what they offered me? 25% off the purchase of a DOS. I'm seriously considering a lawsuit. Don't get me wrong, there are a great deal of things I love about my Apex, but the offer of 25% off on a future purchase is a slap in the face."

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holy snatch!!!

I've had a very similar crash, but if I recall correctly, my Reef Angel never advertised power-failure notification as out-of-the-box.

I also signed up for reeftronics after the power failure.
 
Ouch, I feel for the guy.

While I don't have anything as fancy as the apex, I like to test the functionality of all "automatically XXXX" type things before assuming that they do them.
 
Well...there can be a lot of factors here and a great learning lesson...just too bad it came at the loss of a great looking tank and this is not the first or the last time it is going to happen, it is what we learn and do to correct this issue from happening again.

First of all any BAR members using an APEX.......PLEASE PLEASE go to reeftronics and setup an account with them it is FREE (Can Donate)....on of the big benefit that Russ offers with syncing you Apex/DA/Reef Angel is if reeftronics looses any internet connection with the Apex or other controller (ie power outage, router failure, ect.) after 1hr it will email or text you that it can not communicate it will send another at 3hr and lastly at 8hrs in which reeftronics will stop sending notifications and you will need to send an email to Russ to link the connection.

This is why I purchased 2 UPS battery backup...one for my apex large enough to run critical equipment until I can get home and set up my generator if needed...the other ups is for my router & modem so I can still communicate with my Apex....now in my setup it tells me if I have a power failure and alerts me and then I have programming that turns off non-important equipment reduces my MP40s to give flow but conserve power at the same time...

The key in anything is redundancy to help prevent failures.

Note: Just the introduction of Fusion was the first that Apex would alert you that power got restored, they have NEVER said it does it automatically without other equipment and programming...I wouldn't except them to pay for this crash just like I wouldn't expect to have calcium reactor company pay me if the unit clogged and it didn't dose my tank....

Electronics are nice to have but we have to remember they are computers and they do have issues...and we shouldn't just hook them up and figure they will babysit our tanks 100%

Check out the PDF if interested in a UPS backup alert setup for the Apex:
 

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  • Slides from Apex Power Monitoring and Management presentation.pdf
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Funny that this ended up here, the facebook groups are having a field day with it.

Basically the guy failed to operate his APEX, granted I don't use or want APEX I must say that only a senseless fool would bash the quality of their products as they produce one of the best products in the hobby as well as great customer service and support.
He pretty much failed to read the manual on power outages and his other mistake was to plug this thing in and assume that it would magically send communication after the APEX itself lost power, I mean only an idiot would expect it to do that out of the box. Unless APEX shipped the product including a UPS, router, etc. and pre-program everything then this guy's claim is nothing but B.S.
 
He didn't do his homework. Said he was told the Apex would notify him about tank parameters and stuff.

Which is DOES.

You can program the apex to send you a text message/email for a lot of things: (temperature changes, pH changes, power outtage, and so much more).

Neptunes System never advertised that it would notify you of a power outtage during. It will send you a message after it turns back on. Which is a pretty awesome feature to have period.

All products have their limitations. It's up to the user to do their research and find out what those are.

He's thinking about taking legal actions. It wouldn't get anywhere lol. Can I sue Fish Street if the Dosing Pump unloads all the alkalinity into my tank?

His tank crashing was unfortunate but his misunderstanding about the Apex notifications is his own fault. The professional thing to do for Neptunes Systems was to not offer anything and explain the capabilities of the Apex. Offering him 25% off a DOS was a nice offer but he took it as a slap in the face.
 
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I will say after having a peristaltic pump continuously pump... ironically after my Neptune Aquacontroller 3 power bar locked into the on state... dumping about 2 gallons worth of calcium and alkalinity 2 part in my tank the net result was a beautiful winter wonderland view for a couple days, the only harm was to a poor Solon Wrasse which wrapped itself into a cocoon and I think suffocated. :)
 
This is a horrible thing, and I wouldn't want to wish a tank crash on anyone, but I have got to say that he did not understand how the apex operated. This is not the fault of the Apex. A lawsuit? Oh please...
 
I will admit, setting up both the Apex controller and the Fusion account was a bit confusing. However, once I setup SMS/email notifications from Fusion I haven't had any problems.

The Apex controller won't be able to notify you directly during a power outage until it comes back up, but I believe Fusion provides the same dead-man-switch type of alarming as Reeftronics does when it loses communication with your controller. Please correct me if I'm wrong (looking at you @jonmos75).

Controllers are complicated systems that can be confusing to setup and need to be tested thoroughly for your system to make sure they are doing what you want them to do.

I live in a terrible house with every outlet on a single circuit breaker, so I've been through all too many power loss drills with my system. Things I spent time setting up:
- Notifications
- Skimmer startup delay to prevent flood while sump is pumping down to operating level
- Return Pump Failure Alarm/Sump High Level Switch

What happened to this gentleman's tank is terrible and I can't imagine that kind of loss, but you can't hold the controller accountable for a power loss.
 
wpeterson said:
The Apex controller won't be able to notify you directly during a power outage until it comes back up, but I believe Fusion provides the same dead-man-switch type of alarming as Reeftronics does when it loses communication with your controller. Please correct me if I'm wrong (looking at you @jonmos75).
Click to expand...

Once power goes out there is no way of the Apex/Fusion to send you an alert as in a power outage you have no power to the controller, but once the power is restored you will get an email only from Fusion saying that power is back and you would have never know that you lost power.....With reeftronics it pings your Apex ever 10min or so and if your controller does not respond to that ping then reeftronics lets you know that it cant communicate with your controller...this could be caused by power failure, modem & router issues, ISP issues or change of IP address...

Reeftronics gives you the heads up that something like a power failure could be present....Fusion will let you know that everything is connected back after the power issue.

Now hooking up a (2) UPS's is a different way to keep power to the Apex to give you text that a power failure has occurred...but that cost money where Reeftronics does not
 
I'll have to do some copy paste when I'm able later. Anyways I was talking to Tj about this last night. The issue wasn't that his house actually lost power it was an internal issue with the apex and its programming that caused the crash. I will be definitely setting up that reef tronics thing as it seems to be a nice backup just in case. Sadly dual ups are still on the need to buy list but on the upside 90% of my time is spent with no more than about 6' between me and my tanks.


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Merith said:
I'll have to do some copy paste when I'm able later. Anyways I was talking to Tj about this last night. The issue wasn't that his house actually lost power it was an internal issue with the apex and its programming that caused the crash. I will be definitely setting up that reef tronics thing as it seems to be a nice backup just in case. Sadly dual ups are still on the need to buy list but on the upside 90% of my time is spent with no more than about 6' between me and my tanks.
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Yikes :-/ That sounds scary, I'd love to hear more information about what exactly happened and what failed.
 
Went and looked for the post last night and couldn't find it. I'll hit him up for more info next time I see home online, well as long as I can remember lol.


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HiFidelity said:
Funny that this ended up here, the facebook groups are having a field day with it.

Basically the guy failed to operate his APEX, granted I don't use or want APEX I must say that only a senseless fool would bash the quality of their products as they produce one of the best products in the hobby as well as great customer service and support.
He pretty much failed to read the manual on power outages and his other mistake was to plug this thing in and assume that it would magically send communication after the APEX itself lost power, I mean only an idiot would expect it to do that out of the box. Unless APEX shipped the product including a UPS, router, etc. and pre-program everything then this guy's claim is nothing but B.S.
Click to expand...

Totally agreed. This is not an APEX functionality issue. This is a user setup issue.
 
With all the new technology these days, people forget about the simple solutions.

There are several cheap, easy ways he could have prepared for a power outage, and it would be best to do it independent of the apex.
 
He's blaming the wrong party.

If he had the Apex on a static IP or hostname, he could have set it up so that if the unit was no longer pingable, it would shoot off an alert saying it was offline.

Of course, Reeftronics works too. :)
 
My understanding of the issue before the fb thread got pulled was what ever it is that reeftronics does with the IP address and not having that extra piece of software setup was the problem. I wish they wouldn't have removed the thread as my memory is pretty crap. It sounded like the power loss was internal to the apex and did not generate a notification upon reset or something. Not quite sure if y'all can discern from that what it was but that's what I can remember of the conversation, as I gave him crap for not having the apex and networking stuff on a ups and he explained it to me and it wasn't a power outage like I was thinking. All I know is between that and their reasons for hating wireless, plus my own experience with issues upgrading the firmware on a more complex network than modem>router>apex makes me not quite trust the system, still like it and will continue to use it but am going to be taking some extra precautions when I reset up the system on the upgrades.
 
when in doubt reefangel haha, I can't state that one is better than the other but I personally like Roberto so I'm picking up my 2nd RA+ this weekend, not sure what I'm going to do with two of them at this moment but at some point in the future I think I will... haha
 
In any case, any type of hardware that's down won't be able to tell you it's down (by itself) if it has no power. You have to rely on another service to tell you otherwise, hence why I was suggesting that if the device isn't pingable, it's safe to assume that (at least) the network communication is down and (possibly) there's a power issue. You basically just need something to poll your Apex (which is what Reeftronics does) to let you know of a potential device failure.
 
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