Cali Kid Corals

Asking for a friend...

I'll go against the sentiments above and advocate for the Apex. Why? Stability. One of the most important factors in a long-term successful reef is stability and nothing contributes more stability than an Apex if used properly. Frankly, the ability to keep a tank at a steady temperature with one degree at all times is almost worth the price of admission alone.
 
Ok Bruce, given this, the EL comes with temp and PH probe. What else would I want/need to add to the controller to get the most out of it with the least additional costs?
 
Getting all the peripherals and having control through an Apex is cool but 1 of the best reasons for having an Apex is having the ability to be alerted when issues arise. Not just in parameters but hardware failures.

How would you know if your return pump fails? Even with out having to purchase the flow sensor kit.

Power monitoring. Your equipment will draw a certain amount of power when it is on. You can set an alert when that power draw deviates from the norm. On a return pump, you can tell when it is time to clean it. You can definitely tell when it is down.

Same thing for a heater, even before you get the temp alert, you will get a power alert if the heater fails and does not draw power when it is asked to tun on.

This feature is baked into the EB832 that comes with the Apex/Apex EL. No other modules to buy.

Now you can also control the Apex through Alexa and soon Google home. Working in the sump and time to clean the skimmer but your hands are wet? "Alexa, tell Apex Fusion to turn off Skimmer". That's all there is to it. Again, baked into Fusion. Nothing extra to buy.

Have Hydra HD or Prime lights? Control through Fusion. Nothing extra to buy.

Have pumps that run on 0-10v? Like a Varios return pump? You will need to buy 1 cable but then you will be able to have the return pump slow down until there is barely any water coming out of the return piping so the water doesn't siphon back into your sump from the return. Can be done through Alex as well. "Alexa, tell Apex Fusion to Feed My Fish". You can schedule a slew of operations to happen with just that simple voice command. However, you will need the Apex or if you have the Apex EL, you will need the VDM.

Is it worth your money? Entirely up to you, everyone's situation is different. Question to ask is how much will it cost you if the heater or return pump fails? Even if it saves you that 1 time, it that worth it to you?
 
Depends on what your needs are and modules can be added over time. They are also almost always available used at a deep discount if you're patient. Many of the modules add both simple automation to your system which is a time-saver and everyone's needs are different. But also worth the price of admission is simply the Apex Fusion interface which gives you an easy way to monitor things from anywhere and to make changes from your tablet, phone or computer. Add to that the ability to eventually monitor Alk and Cal automatically and it's well worth it.

There's a lot of things that can be upgraded in a system Others have talked about a few, but those are mostly incremental upgrades. For instance, upgrading a skimmer is great, but frankly skimmers are just one part of nutrient removal and not all that efficient anyway. The best skimmers are said to remove at best 25-30% of unwanted nutrients. So if a basic skimmer doesn't perform quite that well and pulls 20% from the system you'll likely spend $300-$700.00 to pull another 5-10%. That's good, but it's an incremental upgrade. What about lighting controllers? Usually once you set them you're done. Since our goal is stability then fiddling with lighting on a daily or weekly basis works against us anyway.

One thing to keep in mind though is that used Apex's are always available and will save you a ton. A good classic controller with some modules is often available for a couple hundred bucks. The only thing you're giving up going that route is the eventual opportunity to add the Alk/Calc monitor.
 
Vhuang168 said:
Getting all the peripherals and having control through an Apex is cool but 1 of the best reasons for having an Apex is having the ability to be alerted when issues arise. Not just in parameters but hardware failures.

How would you know if your return pump fails? Even with out having to purchase the flow sensor kit.

Power monitoring. Your equipment will draw a certain amount of power when it is on. You can set an alert when that power draw deviates from the norm. On a return pump, you can tell when it is time to clean it. You can definitely tell when it is down.

Same thing for a heater, even before you get the temp alert, you will get a power alert if the heater fails and does not draw power when it is asked to tun on.

This feature is baked into the EB832 that comes with the Apex/Apex EL. No other modules to buy.

Now you can also control the Apex through Alexa and soon Google home. Working in the sump and time to clean the skimmer but your hands are wet? "Alexa, tell Apex Fusion to turn off Skimmer". That's all there is to it. Again, baked into Fusion. Nothing extra to buy.

Have Hydra HD or Prime lights? Control through Fusion. Nothing extra to buy.

Have pumps that run on 0-10v? Like a Varios return pump? You will need to buy 1 cable but then you will be able to have the return pump slow down until there is barely any water coming out of the return piping so the water doesn't siphon back into your sump from the return. Can be done through Alex as well. "Alexa, tell Apex Fusion to Feed My Fish". You can schedule a slew of operations to happen with just that simple voice command. However, you will need the Apex or if you have the Apex EL, you will need the VDM.

Is it worth your money? Entirely up to you, everyone's situation is different. Question to ask is how much will it cost you if the heater or return pump fails? Even if it saves you that 1 time, it that worth it to you?
Click to expand...


All this write up is missing is the BAR discount code.

Actually just bought one, excited to get it set up and see all the options.
 
Bruce Spiegelman said:
One thing to keep in mind though is that used Apex's are always available and will save you a ton. A good classic controller with some modules is often available for a couple hundred bucks. The only thing you're giving up going that route is the eventual opportunity to add the Alk/Calc monitor.
Click to expand...

And possibly some future modules that the older classic/Jr cannot run.

You can always upgrade when that need arises but the Apex/Apex EL Fusion interface offers upgrades that are worth the upcharge. Just the ability to update the modules and Apex through the Fusion interface rather than having to hardwire a computer to update it locally is worth it in my opinion. Renaming the inputs through Fusion rather than the local dashboard is another.
 
Vhuang168 said:
... Power monitoring. Your equipment will draw a certain amount of power when it is on. You can set an alert when that power draw deviates from the norm. On a return pump, you can tell when it is time to clean it. You can definitely tell when it is down....

Same thing for a heater, even before you get the temp alert, you will get a power alert if the heater fails and does not draw power when it is asked to tun on.

This feature is baked into the EB832 that comes with the Apex/Apex EL. No other modules to buy.
...
Click to expand...

You can have power alerts that change based on what output is on?
That is great. I did not know that.
Not obvious how. Need to read some manuals I guess.
 
rygh said:
You can have power alerts that change based on what output is on?
That is great. I did not know that.
Not obvious how. Need to read some manuals I guess.
Click to expand...
Geeze, mentioned this back on page 1, but because I'm not a Neptune employee it doesn't mean much? :D :D :D
 
Vhuang168 said:
There is no discount code. It is MAP priced so doesn't really matter where you buy it from. I see that you already purchased it, I am assuming from an online source. I would encourage you to buy from a LFS instead.
Click to expand...
Well there's always the ~9% discount you can get online... if you find a place with no CA sales tax. So there's that, like $45 worth there.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Well there's always the ~9% discount you can get online... if you find a place with no CA sales tax. So there's that, like $45 worth there.
Click to expand...

No, you have to pay missing sales tax when you do your taxes at the end of the year.
Right there on the form - it asks you.
And I am everyone does that fully and properly.
:rolleyes:
 
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