Bubble algae problem
- Thread starter enaldy
- Start date
ofzakaria
Guest
Did you happen to test your no3 and po4 before starting treatment and after?
I think bubble algae (while more hardy) similar to other green algae where po4, no3 and light are dominant factors in its growth and conteol.
I personally never used vibrent, but my understanding is that all what it is, a multiple bacterial strains that boost up system biological filtration which result in drop in nitrate which in turn help with algae..
The concern I have with vibrent is, it depend on constant addition of these bacterial strains to replenish it instead of incorporating food source for it... otherwise once you stop dosing , things go back the way it was, bacteria will not survive without specific food source..
So I fear products like this mask the symptoms instead of treating the root cause of the problem..
I strongly advice, while you are doing any treatment, find out if your nutrients are high, if yes, treat the source of phosphate and nitrate so you help your system fight algae growth..
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I think bubble algae (while more hardy) similar to other green algae where po4, no3 and light are dominant factors in its growth and conteol.
I personally never used vibrent, but my understanding is that all what it is, a multiple bacterial strains that boost up system biological filtration which result in drop in nitrate which in turn help with algae..
The concern I have with vibrent is, it depend on constant addition of these bacterial strains to replenish it instead of incorporating food source for it... otherwise once you stop dosing , things go back the way it was, bacteria will not survive without specific food source..
So I fear products like this mask the symptoms instead of treating the root cause of the problem..
I strongly advice, while you are doing any treatment, find out if your nutrients are high, if yes, treat the source of phosphate and nitrate so you help your system fight algae growth..
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enaldy
Guest
I did test and it was a bit high.. have to do a retest thou.
Thanks for the advice.
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ofzakaria
Guest
Algae especially bubble algae thrive in high no3 environment. Control your nutrients by improving your biological and mechanical filtrations, control feeding, water changes, vacume sand, clean sump area during water change, clean skimmer during water change, improve return flow...etc
This will help.
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Thales
Past President
I don't think nutrients have much to do with algae growth in our tanks. Too many examples of high nutrient/no algae and low nutrient/yes algae tanks for me to think controlling nutrients does anything. I think herbivores are likely where it is at, however, you can't just dump herbivores into an algae mess and hope, but if you make it easier for them to graze they will keep it in check. Also coral/coralline cover can help remove real estate algae may use. I have wicked high nutrients, NO3 like 50 and PO4 .7 and have no algae at all in my display. I think there is also a difference between some algae and a phase shift, once that happens, nuke it from space.
For Bubble Algae, if there is a lot, put in a canister filter or add a filter sock, hit the bubbles with a brush or your hand so they float, and then let the sock or filter collect them. There are no spores in the bubbles. You may have to do it once a week or so for a month or 3.
The vibrant seems interesting, but there are still too many negative reports for me to feel comfortable with it. YMMV.
For Bubble Algae, if there is a lot, put in a canister filter or add a filter sock, hit the bubbles with a brush or your hand so they float, and then let the sock or filter collect them. There are no spores in the bubbles. You may have to do it once a week or so for a month or 3.
The vibrant seems interesting, but there are still too many negative reports for me to feel comfortable with it. YMMV.
enaldy
Guest
Thanks for the advice... the cleaning up the algae was a option before, but I thought it hada spores in it.
So I think that's the next step.
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ofzakaria
Guest
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ofzakaria
Guest
Always awesome rich. I believe for every thriving tank with such high nitrate and phosphate like your system(I think I have seen only 2 more examples), there is a 100 system miserably failing due to high nutrients and thrive once nutrients are under control.
I cannot explain how your system thrive under such conditions, and from the looks of it you also do not have a solid explanation ha ha.
I think your system is the anomaly and common nutrients control in reef aquariums are the way we commoners should go ha ha...
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Something I have yet to see : A high nutrient tank, with few corals, and no algae problems.
The few successful high nutrient tanks I have seen, like Rich's, seem to have a ton of corals.
I totally agree that having a lot of algae grazers is absolutely critical.
But I think it takes more, or there would not be so many green tanks....
I have yellow tang, sail-fin tang, foxface, a ton of Turbo snails, and more.
Yet I certainly have issues at times.
A theory/opinion: It takes BOTH the algae grazers and corals.
The corals competing for nutrients and plus possibly with chemical warfare.
The few successful high nutrient tanks I have seen, like Rich's, seem to have a ton of corals.
I totally agree that having a lot of algae grazers is absolutely critical.
But I think it takes more, or there would not be so many green tanks....
I have yellow tang, sail-fin tang, foxface, a ton of Turbo snails, and more.
Yet I certainly have issues at times.
A theory/opinion: It takes BOTH the algae grazers and corals.
The corals competing for nutrients and plus possibly with chemical warfare.
Didn't you mention that you dose with Lanthanum for phosphates?
ofzakaria
Guest
There is no system that can be described with one or 2 parameters or at a snapshot in time measurments..
I do not believe rich's system thriving just because it's such high nutrients, neither do I think my system is thriving because of the ultra low nutrients.
I believe its many factors some are known and some are not yet. I doubt if I pass one of my millies or tenuis to rich it would survive that system or look the way they look now in mine. I also think my system is not very suitable for all these softies and LPSs that rich has in that system...
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Another factor I have noticed in a lot of tanks - the fish/coral ratio.
It seems that most successful systems I see have a pretty low ratio. Less fish, more coral.
Of course, that proves nothing.
I am an engineer, and over the years I have tried to keep track of what change matches with what result.
I can't even find good correlation, let alone causality.
It is simply impossible - way too many variables changing at once.
It seems that most successful systems I see have a pretty low ratio. Less fish, more coral.
Of course, that proves nothing.
I am an engineer, and over the years I have tried to keep track of what change matches with what result.
I can't even find good correlation, let alone causality.
It is simply impossible - way too many variables changing at once.
ofzakaria
Guest
true observation and I attribute it to nutrients.
Low fish count, low feeding, low waste, low or under control nutrient.
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Thales
Past President
There are a lot of tanks with high nutrients, though not as high as mine perhaps.
I am not convinced that the other tanks you are talking about are thriving because of nutrient control. As far as I can tell, no one has ever done the experiment of doing just nutrient control - most people throw the kitchen sink at these kinds of problems and then fixate on one of the things they did as what made the difference. Sure the nutrients are down and the algae is gone, but the million other things they did are forgotten.
I would love that to be right - is there any evidence that isn't "it happened after therefore was caused by"? Solid explanations like "nutrients" are nice, but they need to be supported better IMO.
Thales
Past President
I know what you mean, and it could be. It could also be that the coral cover is enough that the space that algae can grow is limited so the hervores can keep up with it.
I think it has to do with phase shifting - people mess around with nutrient levels and hope the algae will die back because of that messing, but it doesn't, it establishes itself more, and then it becomes really hard to shift it back from an algae phase to a coral phase. It's one of the reasons why once wild reefs go algified, it is really hard to get them back, and often the root cause of that is vanishing herbivores. Heck, when you tank a wild, healthy reef, and take away the herbiivores, you get algae even though the nutrients haven't changed. I think people, including me, want the solution to be simple and natural, so we look to nutrients, but like so much in our tanks, things aren't simple.
I get algae growing where it can be hard for the herbivores to get. On the euro brace, I just harvest it. In odd nooks, I use self closing tweezers and pull it (mostly turf). Once I started to do the removal instead of wait for it to 'naturally' resolve, the tank has even fewer algae issues.
Thales
Past President
I do. Low dose of low dilution over time to see if sequestering is something that can be gotten ahead of. PO4 was .67 last time I tested. It used to be 2.0, and I have had it as low as .17. Maybe I will test today.
ofzakaria
Guest
Well said on all...
You have said in the past that experiments by hobbyists added the most to the reef keeping hobby. There is a large consensus by hobbyist that when nutrients are controlled tanks thrive. I also think there is actually scientific researches that went in to nutrient control that spun our red sea, aqua forest,triton methods and zeovit programs that are built on nutrients control programs. So am not sure why you think there is no data...
Just to be clear, we are talking about such high nutrients as you have in your system..70ppm no3 and 1.xxpo4.. that is what I am calling an anomaly and think not common to have thriving tank with such high numbers...
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ofzakaria
Guest
I think there is a bit of mischaracterization here. Many, if not most, reefers would treat algae by simply adding GFO to bring down po4. Or in modern reef keeping use something like nopox(vodka..etc) to bring down no3.. Do not you think?
To me gfo and carbon are targeted attempt to lower po4 to combat algae and if it did not work, it would have not been adapted for all these years..
Not everyone throw the "kitchen sink" a behavior I attribute to online forums confusing new commers only, which this is a whole diffrent topic
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Thales
Past President
thanks!
there is also large consensus that garlic cures inch, but that doesn’t mean it is true. There are all kinds of things people think, but turn out not to be so - most aquarist think there are reproductive spores in bubble algae bubbles, but there isn’t. “Common knowledge” it’s experimentation.
Lots of people think and say there are such things, but no one has ever been able to show them to me. I would love for you to find them and show me because I can’t find anything.