Reef nutrition

Bubble algae problem

Btw rich, would you be up for an experiment?
Do you think an acro from my system would survive your 70ppm no3 1.6 po4 system?
3 months should be a good to tell?
I have a colony that is 3 years old in my super low nutrients system that I can donate for such experiment...

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Well you are starting to contradict one of your talk points where you stated that reefers in this hobby have contributed more than anyone else to the knowledge of reef keeping( the micro fraging talk) [/quote]

I am not sure how I am doing that. What are you seeing?

I feel you are being selective to what you want to call right and wrong..which is ok ofcourse.
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How am I doing that?

I personally would take actual scientific study over all.
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Me too, though it is incredibly unlikely to happen because no one wants to do it or fund it and there isn't a really compelling reason to do it.

I would take s collective believe that I seen it work on my system over some. (The caveat here is that the data should come from an experienced reefer).... I truly believe most experienced reefers would not do most of the wacky things we are citing or have learned its effectiveness.
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I guess that depends on what you call experienced. Paul B has been reefing for almost 50 years and he thinks and does some nutty stuff IMO.

So a data generated by BRS is one data point I will not give it more or less than any individual anecdotal point by an experienced reefer.
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Of course.
 
ofzakaria said:
Btw rich, would you be up for an experiment?
Do you think an acro from my system would survive your 70ppm no3 1.6 po4 system?
3 months should be a good to tell?
I have a colony that is 3 years old in my super low nutrients system that I can donate for such experiment...

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Sure, or we could just look at the new growth I have from frags I got from AC a few months ago. :D
 
Thales said:
For sure. Bubbling outside air into a sump or skimmer seemed to make sense. Some people tried it, and it seemed to work. More people tried it and it really seemed to work. It is also very easy to document - just like you, when I tried it, the pH obviously went up. This one is simple, well defined, and easy to test.
Though I will argue about smaller bubbles. I go for lager bubbles because the data shows that gasses dissolving from bubbles isn't great for gas exchange, however, breaking the surface tension is great for gas exchange. I run big, roiling bubbles in my sump.

Does it matter? I don't know either. Since it is so easy to do, and because it might matter, I do it. If I had to keep buying stuff to get the same effect, I might not do it. There is some good evidence that corals metabolize everything better at pH above 8.2, pre industrial levels. Does it matter to what we are doing - I don't really know.

:D
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Funny ... there are even arguments on if surface tension affects gas exchange.
Surface tension by itself technically only affects the shape of the air/water interface, to minimize the area.
But there are secondary effects.
More important seems to be breaking the protein film layer, which both types of bubbles should do.

At any rate, the large/small bubbles (at the surface) is an interesting debate.
It is obvious for gas exchange with the bubble itself. Smaller is clearly better. But not at all obvious on surface.
Large bubbles visibly do more. But there are a lot more small bubbles.
I could not find any real data either way.
That actually would be testable, but I don't think I care enough.

There is another difference with tiny bubbles in the fuge - they make it through to the display tank.
One could argue that is good or bad.
 
When I researched it, it seemed clear that there was far more gas exchange from the breaking of surface tension than from the dissolving of bubbles. That was like 20 years ago. :D Oh, there is also more salt creep created by smaller bubbles.
It is all really interesting stuff. Bubbles are nutty and cool. There are a couple new documentaries about them.
 
Thales said:
Sure, or we could just look at the new growth I have from frags I got from AC a few months ago. :D
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Ha ha ha, man let's do it.
We might get some data on acro growth in such high nutrients system.
If you really up to it. I can plan a day where I drive to the city or somewhere if your choosing and give you a decent size acro and just drop it in your system and let's see how it react..

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Thales said:
When I researched it, it seemed clear that there was far more gas exchange from the breaking of surface tension than from the dissolving of bubbles. That was like 20 years ago. :D Oh, there is also more salt creep created by smaller bubbles.
It is all really interesting stuff. Bubbles are nutty and cool. There are a couple new documentaries about them.
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Agree that the surface gas exchange is "normally" dominant. Regardless of bubble size.
But that is with mostly old stale air, not nice fresh air from outside, other than the part you just bubbled in.
So if it already has high CO2 content, it is ineffective.

Interesting about salt creep.
 
I feel guilty, I hope we did not take over the post from the poor guy... hopefully everyone is learning something and hopefully the bubble algae problem will be fixed with:

Scrubbing and manual removal--> rich

Improve biological and mechanical filtration to control nutrients --> pretty much everyone else ha ha...JK.

Possibly adding crab--> I do not have experince om the effectiveness of crab with bubble algae

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Vibrant really does work
You just need a nutrient export like a scrubber to keep up with the dying algea also slow and steady i started seeing results in two weeks and full tank results in a month and half everyone is different though
 
OurCoralReef said:
What kind of horror stories

If you have a nutrient export then you shouldn’t have any problems
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That’s pretty much exactly the statement that @Thales said he doesn’t like. “It should work”, vs “you shouldn’t have any problems”.

I’ve been following some of the microbiome discussions on r2r and think this can be a missing piece from the bubble algae (or any algae) topic. There’s so much going on on the microbe level that we really don’t know much about.
 
OurCoralReef said:
What kind of horror stories

If you have a nutrient export then you shouldn’t have any problems
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I echo rich here. This product is strange to say the least. Some swear by it and some hate it.
From the little that I know, the product is bacterial based..no less no more.
My guess is, it boost the biological filtration a bit, if the issue is due to imbalance in the nitrafying bacteria(which I think is common cause reefers now days just do not have the patience for the system to mature) the product fix the issue, anything beaode that it's not know to me what else this product does...

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Flagg37 said:
That’s pretty much exactly the statement that @Thales said he doesn’t like. “It should work”, vs “you shouldn’t have any problems”.

I’ve been following some of the microbiome discussions on r2r and think this can be a missing piece from the bubble algae (or any algae) topic. There’s so much going on on the microbe level that we really don’t know much about.
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Still learning every day that’s probably why i love this hobby

Im not really sure what he said

Note: when i say you im not specifically speaking to you it’s to everyone myself included

I am no expert but if you dont follow the rules then when you fail don’t blame the product blame the “experiment” you just tested out
Vibrant eats algea
algea is full of nutrients
All those extra nutrients you just created need to be exported somehow
Skimmer, Algea scrubber, chato etc if not exported it will grow other things that feed off nutrients cyano hair algea and other things that feed off high nutrients (even when you dont dose vibrant) high nutrient systems tend to have these problems

note: cyano is a bacteria you need to start it with some sort of culture you had it before in your system came on a frag rock whatever and the high nutrients you just created without exporting it just fed it
 
ofzakaria said:
I echo rich here. This product is strange to say the least. Some swear by it and some hate it.
From the little that I know, the product is bacterial based..no less no more.
My guess is, it boost the biological filtration a bit, if the issue is due to imbalance in the nitrafying bacteria(which I think is common cause reegera how days just do not have the patience for the system to mature) the product fix the issue, anything beaode that it's not know to me what else this product does...

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From my understanding of the product (interviews with the owner) is that the strain of bacteria targets algea it will go for all algea types starting with the weaker and working its way up that’s why with a normal dose it takes time for it to start working (seeing results)

And you are 100% correct with the imbalance of nitrifying bacteria people just want everything now and it throws things out of wack we also need to export those nitrates that the nitrifying bacteria created
 
OurCoralReef said:
From my understanding of the product (interviews with the owner) is that the strain of bacteria targets algea it will go for all algea types starting with the weaker and working its way up that’s why with a normal dose it takes time for it to start working (seeing results)

And you are 100% correct with the imbalance of nitrifying bacteria people just want everything now and it throws things out of wack we also need to export those nitrates that the nitrifying bacteria created[/QUOTEa also referring to the interview the owner did with BRS,
You see I feel the bs is in the first line. What does it mean bacteria target algae? It's not like they developed a flue fir algae lol.
Also which algae exactly? Do they have diffrent strains against diffrent algae?

Is not bacteria and algae 2 diffrent things?
I think they meant bacteria that will help starve algae not target the actual algae.

I honestly think its BS and that's why I do not like the product...

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ofzakaria said:
But you see I feel the bs is in the first line. What does it mean bacteria target algae? It's not like they developed a flue fir algae lol.
Also which algae exactly? Do they have diffrent strains against diffrent algae?

Is not bacteria and algae 2 diffrent things?
I think they meant bacteria that will help starve algae not target the actual algae.

I honestly think its BS and that's why I do not like the product...

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This is what they say im in no way affiliated to the company just used the product when i had nothing to loose and it really worked i followed the instructions and watched YouTube videos on it and whatever they said happened

“It’s bacteria that they cultivated specifically to target algea”

Starving algea would lower the nutrient levels not raise them so it has to be something that is targeting the algae i came to a point where my glass was clean for weeks
 
This btw goes back to the point I made with rich, I take BRS with huge grain of salt cause at the end of the day theybpromot what they want to sell. They talked about the product like it's a miracle and bumped so much ad induced reviews..they have done the same with other products.
I think the collective experince in the reefing community, especially if you filter out the noise and follow experinces reefers is better judge than BRS or a vendor review...
Ofcourse actual research and scientific papers comes first of all if available...

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OurCoralReef said:
This is what they say im in no way affiliated to the company just used the product when i had nothing to loose and it really worked i followed the instructions and watched YouTube videos on it and whatever they said happened

“It’s bacteria that they cultivated specifically to target algea”

Starving algea would lower the nutrient levels not raise them so it has to be something that is targeting the algae i came to a point where my glass was clean for weeks
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Totally get it my man. I know you and I have never suspected you have a hidden motive with a post...
I love your videos and youtube channel btw...

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ofzakaria said:
This btw goes back to the point I made with rich, I take BRS with huge grain of salt cause at the end of the day theybpromot what they want to sell. They talked about the product like it's a miracle and bumped so much ad induced reviews..they have done the same with other products.
I think the collective experince in the reefing community, especially if you filter out the noise and follow experinces reefers is better judge than BRS or a vendor review...
Ofcourse actual research and scientific papers comes first of all if available...

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No one is willing to do the research or fund it i personally made my YouTube channel for just that give people information im not afraid to talk about a company because no one gave me anything for free and if i did get something i would tell them that full disclosure i will speak my mind positive or negative

Just because they are promoting it doesn’t necessarily mean it doesn’t work they make videos on radions kessil hydra and even black boxes i am always cautious but if you are in a tight spot nothing to loose and that’s where i was and it worked well for me
 
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