Calcium reactor, ok what do I need?
- Thread starter sfsuphysics
- Start date
Raddogz
Guest
Fwiw - I don't use a kalk reactor/stirrer on my 120g. I literally dump in one teaspoon of kalk in the five gallon reservoir and have it top off into the sump (it takes two and a half days for the five gallons to be used up).
Btw, clams seem to suck up alk like nobody's business - hence my turn to a calcium reactor.
Btw, clams seem to suck up alk like nobody's business - hence my turn to a calcium reactor.
nash
Supporting Member
[quote author=Natterjak link=topic=1867.msg17733#msg17733 date=1174539746]
Wayland,
Do you drip kalk in addition to your calcium reactor? Or does dripping it into the 'fuge seem to be enough? I have a KR2 as well, but haven't set it up yet, because I don't know if I feel like having to drip kalk to make up for the pH drop.
[/quote]
Hi
You know I don’t drip Kalk into the tank but don’t notice a significant change in my PH. I do run refugium, but also have a deep sand bed not sure if it has anything to do with it. My PH is currently at 8.4 when lights are on and 8.3 when off. On the high side but stable. I rarely test unless I notice a problem or maybe I’m just lazy.Maybe DSB help regulated the PH ? I kind of jumped right in and hooked it up without worrying about what could happen.(maybe I just got lucky) :
Set yours up and monitor the PH every hour since the drip rate is so slow it take a long time to effect the PH and your have time to correct any problems. I was never able to keep the CA,ALK at a stable level before using a CA reactor. Which model did you get?
Wayland,
Do you drip kalk in addition to your calcium reactor? Or does dripping it into the 'fuge seem to be enough? I have a KR2 as well, but haven't set it up yet, because I don't know if I feel like having to drip kalk to make up for the pH drop.
[/quote]
Hi
You know I don’t drip Kalk into the tank but don’t notice a significant change in my PH. I do run refugium, but also have a deep sand bed not sure if it has anything to do with it. My PH is currently at 8.4 when lights are on and 8.3 when off. On the high side but stable. I rarely test unless I notice a problem or maybe I’m just lazy.Maybe DSB help regulated the PH ? I kind of jumped right in and hooked it up without worrying about what could happen.(maybe I just got lucky) :
Set yours up and monitor the PH every hour since the drip rate is so slow it take a long time to effect the PH and your have time to correct any problems. I was never able to keep the CA,ALK at a stable level before using a CA reactor. Which model did you get?sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
[quote author=Mr. Ugly link=topic=1867.msg17753#msg17753 date=1174594754]
Mike, I'm guessing that you are way overdosing and getting precipitation leading to big swings in Ca and alk.
If you you went from 6dKH to 5dKH in one day, your dosage rate to keep up with consumption calculates to only about 80ml(which is how much I dose to my 72).
You'd dose ~500ml only to bring your dKH up from the current low to about 10, and you'd have to do that over several days at maybe 150ml/day to zero in on the right levels. No wonder you were talking about pH swings before. 500ml in one shot would do it.
[/quote]
So maybe I'm making the formula wrong or something, because I have added that much, tested the next day, and it was not 10dKH, hell it didn't even budge.
Mike, I'm guessing that you are way overdosing and getting precipitation leading to big swings in Ca and alk.
If you you went from 6dKH to 5dKH in one day, your dosage rate to keep up with consumption calculates to only about 80ml(which is how much I dose to my 72).
You'd dose ~500ml only to bring your dKH up from the current low to about 10, and you'd have to do that over several days at maybe 150ml/day to zero in on the right levels. No wonder you were talking about pH swings before. 500ml in one shot would do it.
[/quote]
So maybe I'm making the formula wrong or something, because I have added that much, tested the next day, and it was not 10dKH, hell it didn't even budge.
Mr. Ugly
Past President
2.25 cups of baking soda, bake at 300F for an hour or so, add water to make 1 gallon?
How did you figure on 500ml daily dosage?
Here's what Randy says about large doses seeming to have no effect:
Here's more info on the role of Mg in inhibiting CaCO3 crystallization:
What's your process for making up saltwater with Oceanic?
It's low in alk and high in Ca and Mg. So if it were me, I'd make up the new water and dose only the alk portion to balance things out. Then add that to the tank, and do 80ml daily doses of alk and Ca to keep up with your rate of consumption.
If you are adding both alk and Ca to your newly made Oceanic, I'd expect the Ca to become so high that you precipitate a ton of your alk. Ca is already in excess relative to alk in seawater, so it would make sense that your alk drops way low if you trigger a precipitation event.
How did you figure on 500ml daily dosage?
Here's what Randy says about large doses seeming to have no effect:
Here's more info on the role of Mg in inhibiting CaCO3 crystallization:
What's your process for making up saltwater with Oceanic?
It's low in alk and high in Ca and Mg. So if it were me, I'd make up the new water and dose only the alk portion to balance things out. Then add that to the tank, and do 80ml daily doses of alk and Ca to keep up with your rate of consumption.
If you are adding both alk and Ca to your newly made Oceanic, I'd expect the Ca to become so high that you precipitate a ton of your alk. Ca is already in excess relative to alk in seawater, so it would make sense that your alk drops way low if you trigger a precipitation event.
Natterjak
Guest
I wonder if you dose a large amount like that at once, if you're essentially precipitating it all out, and maybe that's why you're not seeing a change?
Have you tried other test kits, just to make sure that yours are reading correctly and eliminate them as a possible problem?
For the alkalinity part, I just measure out 2 1/4 cups baking soda, spread it on a cookie sheet and bake it for 1 hr at 300 degrees. Then I dissolve it in 1 gallon of RO/DI.
Have you tried other test kits, just to make sure that yours are reading correctly and eliminate them as a possible problem?
For the alkalinity part, I just measure out 2 1/4 cups baking soda, spread it on a cookie sheet and bake it for 1 hr at 300 degrees. Then I dissolve it in 1 gallon of RO/DI.
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
Yup, I follow the recipe almost exactly, 600 grams of baking soda measured on a scale, laid out on a cookie sheet ontop of aluminum foil (so I don't cross contaminate with pie goo or something ). Bake it for an hour, and pour into container (with air filters on since that stuff seems to get airborne quite easily). 1 gallon of RO/DI water, shake, and usually wait a day before dosing just to make sure it's as dissolved as it can get.
How I figured on that much? Well basically dosing and seeing no change at all (and sometimes drops) figured I'd up the ante, and dose a lot just to see how much of an effect that'll do. It didn't do much, calcium did have a change, it usually raised 20ppm in a day however.
When I make saltwater, I just add the salt to a garbage can full of RO/DI water, I don't add anything else to it, when I do water changes.
Could I be adding too much? Sure it's possible, but I don't just dump it in, I have a drip system which does 1 drop every 1 to 2 seconds.
Eitherway ,sounds like Oceanic might be a bit suspect, time to switch back to IO.
). Bake it for an hour, and pour into container (with air filters on since that stuff seems to get airborne quite easily). 1 gallon of RO/DI water, shake, and usually wait a day before dosing just to make sure it's as dissolved as it can get. How I figured on that much? Well basically dosing and seeing no change at all (and sometimes drops) figured I'd up the ante, and dose a lot just to see how much of an effect that'll do. It didn't do much, calcium did have a change, it usually raised 20ppm in a day however.
When I make saltwater, I just add the salt to a garbage can full of RO/DI water, I don't add anything else to it, when I do water changes.
Could I be adding too much? Sure it's possible, but I don't just dump it in, I have a drip system which does 1 drop every 1 to 2 seconds.
Eitherway ,sounds like Oceanic might be a bit suspect, time to switch back to IO.
Mr. Ugly
Past President
Yah, the 50/50 trick work well.
Mike, if you just up and switch back to IO, you'll get your tank parameters all whacked in some different way. If you're going to switch, you might as well order half a dozen buckets of Reef Crystals from Fosters&Smith. The Ca/Alk/Mg levels are more balanced compared to either Oceanic or IO alone.
[quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=1867.msg17776#msg17776 date=1174655706]How I figured on that much? Well basically dosing and seeing no change at all (and sometimes drops) figured I'd up the ante, and dose a lot just to see how much of an effect that'll do. [/quote]
Were you looking at Alk, Ca, or both when you saw no change? Ca readings can fool you. 20ppm is smaller than the uncertainty of the Ca test procedure. Oceanic mixes up to about 475-500+ ppm Ca. 20/500 is only a 4% difference. You're better off looking at Alk and just matching Ca volume to your Alk volume when dosing to make up for rate of consumption.
Dosing to correct imbalance is another issue. After making up fresh Oceanic, you can dose just the Alk at a rate of about 40ml per 20gal of new water, to balance out the Alk to the Ca.
If you're adding 500ml of each 2 part to your 100gal system, you're trying to shoot your Ca up to around 550ppm. That's making everything precipitate in your tank and that's why your pumps seize up and you have deposits on the glass.
---
So this is what I would do:
Assumptions:
120gal system
20gal water changes
Oceanic with parameters of 500ppm Ca and 7dKH
tank parameters somewhere close to Oceanic parameters
Alk consumption at 1dKH/day requiring dosing 80ml/day of 2-part.
Verify system parameters for Ca and dKH.
If the assumptions are correct, bring the system parameters in line by dosing 130ml/day for 4 days of only the Alk.
Now your tank should be around 420ppm Ca and 9.8dKH.
Starting on the 5th day, switch to 80ml daily dosage for both parts of the 2-part.
When making new water, add 40ml of the Alk for every 20gal of new Oceanic.
Mike, if you just up and switch back to IO, you'll get your tank parameters all whacked in some different way. If you're going to switch, you might as well order half a dozen buckets of Reef Crystals from Fosters&Smith. The Ca/Alk/Mg levels are more balanced compared to either Oceanic or IO alone.
[quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=1867.msg17776#msg17776 date=1174655706]How I figured on that much? Well basically dosing and seeing no change at all (and sometimes drops) figured I'd up the ante, and dose a lot just to see how much of an effect that'll do. [/quote]
Were you looking at Alk, Ca, or both when you saw no change? Ca readings can fool you. 20ppm is smaller than the uncertainty of the Ca test procedure. Oceanic mixes up to about 475-500+ ppm Ca. 20/500 is only a 4% difference. You're better off looking at Alk and just matching Ca volume to your Alk volume when dosing to make up for rate of consumption.
Dosing to correct imbalance is another issue. After making up fresh Oceanic, you can dose just the Alk at a rate of about 40ml per 20gal of new water, to balance out the Alk to the Ca.
If you're adding 500ml of each 2 part to your 100gal system, you're trying to shoot your Ca up to around 550ppm. That's making everything precipitate in your tank and that's why your pumps seize up and you have deposits on the glass.
---
So this is what I would do:
Assumptions:
120gal system
20gal water changes
Oceanic with parameters of 500ppm Ca and 7dKH
tank parameters somewhere close to Oceanic parameters
Alk consumption at 1dKH/day requiring dosing 80ml/day of 2-part.
Verify system parameters for Ca and dKH.
If the assumptions are correct, bring the system parameters in line by dosing 130ml/day for 4 days of only the Alk.
Now your tank should be around 420ppm Ca and 9.8dKH.
Starting on the 5th day, switch to 80ml daily dosage for both parts of the 2-part.
When making new water, add 40ml of the Alk for every 20gal of new Oceanic.
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
So you suggest when doing water changes dose appropriately to the makeup water to have the desired calcium/alk levels?
the assumption of tank parameters somewhere close to Oceanic is false. Unless you mean I "want" my parameters there.
Here's the deal, last night/this morning I made another batch of baking soda, but this time didn't bake it, someone suggested they get less precipitiation if they don't bake it, and some even said they couldn't raise their alk with the baked stuff. So I did, when I got home finished off the drip, tested and read dKH of 9 *sigh*.. now while yes that is a nice range, the fact it went from 5 to 9 overnight worries the crap out of me. Now I could just be getting a mis-reading because the stuff hasn't gotten a chance to fully circulate and somehow was more concentrated in the place where I took the reading. I'm going to take another reading later tonight just to verify.
Calcium however is only 340ppm. We'll see what I can do to fix that next. Either way I don't want to dose magnesium as per instruction on randy's instruction.. I have a feeling the last time I did that is what screwed me over and shot it through the roof.
the assumption of tank parameters somewhere close to Oceanic is false. Unless you mean I "want" my parameters there.
Here's the deal, last night/this morning I made another batch of baking soda, but this time didn't bake it, someone suggested they get less precipitiation if they don't bake it, and some even said they couldn't raise their alk with the baked stuff. So I did, when I got home finished off the drip, tested and read dKH of 9 *sigh*.. now while yes that is a nice range, the fact it went from 5 to 9 overnight worries the crap out of me. Now I could just be getting a mis-reading because the stuff hasn't gotten a chance to fully circulate and somehow was more concentrated in the place where I took the reading. I'm going to take another reading later tonight just to verify.
Calcium however is only 340ppm. We'll see what I can do to fix that next. Either way I don't want to dose magnesium as per instruction on randy's instruction.. I have a feeling the last time I did that is what screwed me over and shot it through the roof.
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
I've tried, but honestly I can't get a reading
According to the instructions it says it'll turn from pink to blue when it's at the peak.. then it goes onto say "dont worry if it turns from blue to purple after a few minutes" well I never get to the blue stage it goes straight to purple.
According to the instructions it says it'll turn from pink to blue when it's at the peak.. then it goes onto say "dont worry if it turns from blue to purple after a few minutes" well I never get to the blue stage it goes straight to purple.
Mr. Ugly
Past President
Your magnesium could be way high if you dosed in proportion to the 500ml per day of each 2 part.
Best to test and dose Mg to reach ~1350-1400ppm.
Try diluting your test sample to 1/2 or 1/3 strength and test that instead. Even if your undiluted Mg is ~2000ppm, you should be able to get a reasonable reading after dilution.
Best to test and dose Mg to reach ~1350-1400ppm.
Try diluting your test sample to 1/2 or 1/3 strength and test that instead. Even if your undiluted Mg is ~2000ppm, you should be able to get a reasonable reading after dilution.
tuberider
Guest
[quote author=Mr. Ugly link=topic=1867.msg17809#msg17809 date=1174750671]
Maybe we can do a tank chemistry walk-through for a future club meeting round-table discussion.
We could do water tests for tank samples and freshly made up Oceanic, IO, Reef Crystals or whatever. Then calculate any dosing required for balancing alk/Ca/Mg parameters.
[/quote]
That's a good idea, similar to the DSB discussion before the next meeting. Perhaps we can compare different test kits as well.
Maybe we can do a tank chemistry walk-through for a future club meeting round-table discussion.
We could do water tests for tank samples and freshly made up Oceanic, IO, Reef Crystals or whatever. Then calculate any dosing required for balancing alk/Ca/Mg parameters.
[/quote]
That's a good idea, similar to the DSB discussion before the next meeting. Perhaps we can compare different test kits as well.
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
Well I didn't dose the magflake/epsom salt mix in relation to the other. However being as I never dosed magnesium I thought I'd follow the recipe which says 2.5 cups worth after each 1 gallon of the other stuff. Bad move.
Good call on the diluted water sample, do half as much water and see how that works out. If anything I can see if a blue color is on the horizon!
Good call on the diluted water sample, do half as much water and see how that works out. If anything I can see if a blue color is on the horizon!