Don't buy Angelfish from Aquatic Collection!

[Bruce Spiegelman]

I had my first tank in 1985 and got my fish from 'Tis Tropical Fish in Fountain Valley, I hope that is enough experience for you.

I see, "It's a public forum but don't post any negative experiences from the sponsors, but it's okay if it's about their competitors. But wait @iCon, your opinion is worthless because you're just a guest."

I think posting experiences from sponsors is encouraged -- good and bad as long as they are approached reasonably and with a grain of common sense. I suspect our sponsors want to hear about negative experiences so that they can improve -- those are helpful. What's not helpful is unreasonable expectations and rants from a customer grasping at straws and making assumptions. You don't have a leg to stand on with your assumptions and accusations -- that's not encouraged.

On a positive note at least you paid the money and joined the club because of this.

 

[sfsuphysics]

Then are you trying to tell me you're condoning a "Guest" to come here and bash YOUR sponsor? I hope we're not pinning this thread on a technically now, are we? If this is what this club has evolves to, then perhaps I should reconsider my sponsorship.

Easy there with the accusations Robert, this is a local club with a very small amount if people who have access on the message board to do anything about what people post. Combine that with the fact that the post is done at night, during a holiday weekend. I would hope that any sponsor can look a little bit further than one upset person and not think that the entirety of the club supports his viewpoints.

That said, I have not seen anyone post yet who has the power to delete/modify/lock threads.

 

[tankguy]

Okay while I'm in no position to do anything about this conversation , I think everyone should take a step back and relax. Both AC and Neptunes are nice stores ( I am not paid to say that ) with all the pollution and such in our oceans today are we really surprised about the health of the fish? I have had great luck with AC as all my fish have come from them. Sure a few have died but that's luck of the draw. As far as store policy's go maybe we as consumers should ask first before buying. Problem solved. Yes I too worked in a store a that means nothing. The club has had good relations with both these stores and that should continue. Bashing them or anyone else online does nothing. They don't need us. Having a store sponsor a club does not build their profits. So becareful everyone or it just may be a club with no sponsors

 

[robert4025]

Easy there with the accusations Robert, this is a local club with a very small amount if people who have access on the message board to do anything about what people post. Combine that with the fact that the post is done at night, during a holiday weekend. I would hope that any sponsor can look a little bit further than one upset person and not think that the entirety of the club supports his viewpoints.

That said, I have not seen anyone post yet who has the power to delete/modify/lock threads.

It's is not about one person, Mike. It's about this BAR community. Perhaps my expectation is unreasonable as a sponsor but I believe there is no excuse for a long standing member like you to ignore the fact that you are allowing an non-member to wrongfully bash your sponsors. What happen to the old days where real a members actually cares enough to stand up and do the right thing to support their sponsor? especially in situation like this? You call this what you want man. I just think this club needs to do a little better in sponsors in this area. This has been an issue for a while now. I hope your BOD my frustration seriously.

 

[Bruce Spiegelman]

It's is not about one person, Mike. It's about this BAR community. Perhaps my expectation is unreasonable as a sponsor but I believe there is no excuse for a long standing member like you to ignore the fact that you are allowing an non-member to wrongfully bash your sponsors. What happen to the old days where real a members actually cares enough to stand up and do the right thing to support their sponsor? especially in situation like this? You call this what you want man. I just think this club needs to do a little better in sponsors in this area. This has been an issue for a while now. I hope your BOD my frustration seriously.

Robert -- you may want to re-read the thread. I'm pretty sure the members did support AC and you quite vocally.

 

[sfsuphysics]

You're right Robert, I should have just told him to watch his place being a guest here, that he has been granted certain privileges to post as a non-member and shouldn't abuse them by attacking members/sponsors on the board. I should have done that, but I didn't, do I have a good excuse as to why? Yes I do, am I going to talk about it? No I'm not. Fact of the matter is I would have said something to him as this thread has continued down a very flamey path, but now I"m having to deal with a direct accusation form you as well, and yes as a long standing BAR member I'm trying to diffuse the situation rather than bluntly attack it.

Bottom line is the BAR the community shouldn't have to take abuse from either side of the aisle, whether it's a disgruntled customer (whether a member or not) or a disgruntled sponsor. There is a BOD for a reason, they are the ones who are the middleman here, they are the ones who moderate posts if they feel like they're not in the clubs best interest, they are the ones that sponsors need to contact when they feel they have been unjustly wronged on their forum or when they feel that not enough reciprocity has occurred from their sponsorship.

So yeah my attempt to diffuse the situation a bit failed, but the last thing we need is a flame war between guests and members on the board, again there are people who have access to stop these things, everyone else they are either a soldier in the line of fire or a diplomat trying to make things not go south in a hurry.

 

[robert4025]

Robert -- you may want to re-read the thread. I'm pretty sure the members did support AC and you quite vocally.

I do apologize for generalizing the members that did. My last post was directed more toward an individual. Thank you, for your show of support!

 

[robert4025]

You're right Robert, I should have just told him to watch his place being a guest here, that he has been granted certain privileges to post as a non-member and shouldn't abuse them by attacking members/sponsors on the board. I should have done that, but I didn't, do I have a good excuse as to why? Yes I do, am I going to talk about it? No I'm not. Fact of the matter is I would have said something to him as this thread has continued down a very flamey path, but now I"m having to deal with a direct accusation form you as well, and yes as a long standing BAR member I'm trying to diffuse the situation rather than bluntly attack it.

Bottom line is the BAR the community shouldn't have to take abuse from either side of the aisle, whether it's a disgruntled customer (whether a member or not) or a disgruntled sponsor. There is a BOD for a reason, they are the ones who are the middleman here, they are the ones who moderate posts if they feel like they're not in the clubs best interest, they are the ones that sponsors need to contact when they feel they have been unjustly wronged on their forum or when they feel that not enough reciprocity has occurred from their sponsorship.

So yeah my attempt to diffuse the situation a bit failed, but the last thing we need is a flame war between guests and members on the board, again there are people who have access to stop these things, everyone else they are either a soldier in the line of fire or a diplomat trying to make things not go south in a hurry.

No hard feeling, Mike. I know you had good intention. Thank you for being a bigger man than I am.

 

[Benaminh]

So, you're a "has been" LFS store manager that think he knows it all or knows enough to wrongfully bash other store based on assumptions? Right...LOL

BTW...I am focusing on my business. I am here to weed out bad people like you from coming to my shop. I hope my buddies at AC will do the same to you.

See ya!

I stopped managing the LFS because I completed my undergrad at UCBerkeley and moved away to start my graduate studies somewhere else. As for "has been" fish monger, you should take a long hard look in the mirror.

I have had no interest in purchasing anything from you for years now, even if you tried you couldn't match the selection of Atlantis Aquarium even when they were going under. Speaking of which, I doubt your longevity in this business and predict your closure soon enough. The turnover of LFS's is high and you're already talking about selling.

I hope this thread doesn't get censored and remains publicly visible as proof to other hobbyists to show them your character and to whom they are giving money. Your lack of anger management, illogical ad hominem attacks, and general bad attitude at starting a flame war that isn't even about you speaks volumes about your conflict resolution as a shop owner. After reading your posts, it's blatantly obvious that it doesn't matter whether someone on here posts as a guest or supporter because you obviously respect neither, which leads me to conclude that you have the same contempt for most, if not all of your customers. So when an adult stands up to your online bullying, you go crying to the BOD because you can't get your way and issue threats and demands. As a reminder, all of your punitive actions were apparently triggered by my original post that never mentioned Neptune Aquarium and had nothing to do with you.

Troll. @robert4025

 

[robert4025]

I stopped managing the LFS because I completed my undergrad at UCBerkeley and moved away to start my graduate studies somewhere else. As for "has been" fish monger, you should take a long hard look in the mirror.

I have had no interest in purchasing anything from you for years now, even if you tried you couldn't match the selection of Atlantis Aquarium even when they were going under. Speaking of which, I doubt your longevity in this business and predict your closure soon enough. The turnover of LFS's is high and you're already talking about selling.

I hope this thread doesn't get censored and remains publicly visible as proof to other hobbyists to show them your character and to whom they are giving money. Your lack of anger management, illogical ad hominem attacks, and general bad attitude at starting a flame war that isn't even about you speaks volumes about your conflict resolution as a shop owner. After reading your posts, it's blatantly obvious that it doesn't matter whether someone on here posts as a guest or supporter because you obviously respect neither, which leads me to conclude that you have the same contempt for most, if not all of your customers. So when an adult stands up to your online bullying, you go crying to the BOD because you can't get your way and issue threats and demands. As a reminder, all of your punitive actions were apparently triggered by my original post that never mentioned Neptune Aquarium and had nothing to do with you.

Troll. @robert4025

Have a good day. It was fun!

 

[Raddogz]

Sorry the fish died; this is an expensive hobby no doubt. I remember in the days of lfs in SF having the same no gaurantee on fish when it left the store in 70's and I would find it strange if a store did have a guarantee to be honest.

I have shopped at AC before and never had a problem.

 

[650-IS350]

Damn, were can I find a LFS that guarantees me 2 weeks for any fish I buy? Seriously though, one of the few that I see give guarantee is DFS but that's online.

 

[Vincerama2]

This is a good lesson for all of us. Perhaps it is wise, when choosing a fish to consider it's current condition, ask the LFS when it came it. Ask to watch it eat (!! especially a mangarin) to get hard evidence that you can in fact feed it. In fact, maybe buy whatever it is you watch it eat! And at $85, it's likely to still be there in a week or two, so maybe make note (take a pic) of the fish, and come back in two weeks to see if the fish is thriving before buying it.

It's always distressing to see a fish die, and I've had some die under my watch for various reasons (for clownfish, it was almost always suicide by carpet, and for a few it was "failed stupid DC return pump") and it sucks, especially if you didn't even get to watch it swim for a few years before it died.

Sorry to hear this happened, but the story is a good one for people to consider when buying any fish from any store. Thanks for posting.

V

 

[rygh]

Angelfish are sensitive to copper.
In the first post, you mention using copper treatment.
While it sounds like you have the experience to not do it all wrong, it still badly stresses them.
On a healthy fish, it might be fine, but it can push an already sick/cyanided fish over the edge.

I would suggest looking into bucket-tank-transfer or hypo-salinity instead for the future.

As far as the flame war:
Go visit a wholesaler if you can. It will give you a new, and sad, perspective.
The LFS is so stuck in the middle.

 

[Coral reefer]

Wow. Didn't check the site for a few days and this wildfire happened! I can only vouch that my experience with all our sponsors has always been great. I think they are the best of the best lfs we have in this area, and any problems anyone has with them should be discussed with the owners in private.
We have all had a new purchase not make it, but this is NOT the way to deal with it. I would hope everyone would just stop replying to this thread because then it will just go away and die. Please take my advice here people. Thank you!

 

[Coral reefer]

Easy there with the accusations Robert, this is a local club with a very small amount if people who have access on the message board to do anything about what people post. Combine that with the fact that the post is done at night, during a holiday weekend. I would hope that any sponsor can look a little bit further than one upset person and not think that the entirety of the club supports his viewpoints.

That said, I have not seen anyone post yet who has the power to delete/modify/lock threads.

The one time I tried to do damage control it was rebuffed and I was told we can't do that. We can only hope everyone comes to their senses and pretends we are all face to face rather than behind keyboards and screens

 

[Coral reefer]

It's is not about one person, Mike. It's about this BAR community. Perhaps my expectation is unreasonable as a sponsor but I believe there is no excuse for a long standing member like you to ignore the fact that you are allowing an non-member to wrongfully bash your sponsors. What happen to the old days where real a members actually cares enough to stand up and do the right thing to support their sponsor? especially in situation like this? You call this what you want man. I just think this club needs to do a little better in sponsors in this area. This has been an issue for a while now. I hope your BOD my frustration seriously.

Robert, thank you for being one of our 2 biggest most long standing sponsors, you are awesome and your store is pretty great. Not sure how it is anyone's fault besides the OP for this thread, or what you would have the BOD do? I am happy to converse with you through pm or phone. Please reach out and let me know what we can do for you. Thanks!

 

[Coral reefer]

I stopped managing the LFS because I completed my undergrad at UCBerkeley and moved away to start my graduate studies somewhere else. As for "has been" fish monger, you should take a long hard look in the mirror.

I have had no interest in purchasing anything from you for years now, even if you tried you couldn't match the selection of Atlantis Aquarium even when they were going under. Speaking of which, I doubt your longevity in this business and predict your closure soon enough. The turnover of LFS's is high and you're already talking about selling.

I hope this thread doesn't get censored and remains publicly visible as proof to other hobbyists to show them your character and to whom they are giving money. Your lack of anger management, illogical ad hominem attacks, and general bad attitude at starting a flame war that isn't even about you speaks volumes about your conflict resolution as a shop owner. After reading your posts, it's blatantly obvious that it doesn't matter whether someone on here posts as a guest or supporter because you obviously respect neither, which leads me to conclude that you have the same contempt for most, if not all of your customers. So when an adult stands up to your online bullying, you go crying to the BOD because you can't get your way and issue threats and demands. As a reminder, all of your punitive actions were apparently triggered by my original post that never mentioned Neptune Aquarium and had nothing to do with you.

Troll. @robert4025

Please please stop it. Thank you for joining the club, but this type of behavior is not what we are looking for in out community at all. I don't appreciate the tone of the OP, but I think I understand where you were coming from at least. This last post helps no one and does not advance our hobby or community at all, and goes towards hurting the club by upsetting one of our few and best sponsors.
If you want to part of the community, great, but realize you are actively tearing down work that has been done by those that have been here in the past and those who are still here that have been at it much longer than you have been part of this club. Please respect what we have built here, learn, share, be generous, respectful, and hope that everyone else will do the same.

 

[ThRoewer]

No store will give you a guarantee beyond their door – too much can happen just on the way home (stop for some additional shopping and your fish may get cooked in the car). LiveAquaria can do it only because their mark-up is so high that they likely still make money - also, without that guarantee they wouldn't have much business to begin with. Other online retailers are are more cautious - and have much less of a market share.
Also keep in mind that fish stores are not the manufacturer of the fish. The risk with livestock is shared between the supply chain and the customer – it was and will always be like that.

As for Aquatic Collection: I bought plenty of fish there, among them 7 Regal Angels, and most are still alive today. Though I also lost some fish, some where I couldn’t do much (and it wasn't AC's fault either) and some where I simply dropped the ball like with the Ventralis Anthias where I missed the skin fluke infection until it was too late.
Aquatic Collection is one of the best stores when it comes to fish and anemones around here in relation of selection and quality and their prices are pretty reasonable. They also have their fish system separately and it gets treated if needed. Sure I would appreciate it if they gave me a little discount on my next purchase after a loss, but I don’t hold a grudge or complain if not. (I really miss Matt from CalReefCo – he knew how to treat customers and make them come for more.)

Other large stores here have fish systems that appear to me rather like pathogen cultures – half of their fish are always sick or on the brink of dying. It gets even worse when new fish are put into frag and coral tanks and contaminate those with whatever they come with. One store in particular stands out with having always a good number of sick fish in their systems – and I’m not talking about ich, but rather velvet, brook, uronema and whatever else. It went so far that employees were frustrated with the management’s handling of this and its refusal to treat sick fish. Though I would still buy there if they had fish I couldn’t find anywhere else – I would just be more careful in selecting fish and follow a more aggressive quarantine protocol.

In the end it’s up to the customer to select fish that appear healthy and fit.

On a footnote: I don't know why being a sponsor should protect a store from justified critique? It would be better to listen and fix the problem instead of just looking for excuses. Letting fish just succumb to diseases or to hope they beat it on their own instead of treating when needed is definitely not good for the business - financially and reputation wise.

 

[Franko]

I can only speak from my own experience but I have been shopping at AC for years and my experience there has always been great. Karson and his employees are knowledgeable and honest and have good quality fish and corals. when I ask them how long a fish has been in the shop, they tell me. When I ask them to throw some food into the tank so we can see how it eats, they do it. when I ask them if they think a fish is healthy, I have been told both yes and no. they have always treated me well and I have never felt deceived.

Not everything survives. In order to get to your tank a fish has to endure a lot of rough treatment. In my opinion to expect a fish store to give you a refund or store credit for a fish you bought two weeks ago is totally unreasonable. I know it sucks to have a fish die but that is part of the hobby.