Neptune Aquatics

Emergency- alk rising and ph dropping to dangerous level - complete tank crash

I’m very sorry to hear of this. You’ve gotten some good advice about saving what you can.

There’s what started it, which is often hard to know and you may never find out. Then there’s what turned it into a crash instead of just some limited mortality, which we know more about.

I think running a skimmer is very important to mitigate against the second part. Tank crashes are so crazy because they are a feed-forward problem. Stuff starts dying, which releases dead organics, contributes to a microbe bloom (as well as messing up your good microbiome), which lowers pH and O2, which kills more stuff, etc. Skimming isn’t required all the time when things are going well, leading people to believe they don’t need it, but it absolutely helps when things are going south, even before (especially before) you realize there’s a problem. It’s not just for nutrient control.

Some safety net type benefits of having a skimmer running all the time to reduce the risk of full-tank crashes:

1. Air exchange- adding O2 and blowing off CO2 (protecting against low pH). This can potentially stop the beginning of the crash from feeding-forward and propagating, or at least slow it down to buy you time.
2. Removal of dead organics- this is what the crash is feeding on, so removing as much as possible in real time helps to slow the negative loop.
3. Removal of bacteria blooming- often bacteria blooming is part of the crash, so thinning it out helps.
4. Visual early alert- when you see your skimmer cup filling up with smelly stuff too fast, you know it’s doing a lot of the above steps and you should pay attention. This may be your first warning of an impending crash, before you would otherwise see it.

Again I’m very sorry to hear you are going through this. I realize the above isn’t really helpful to you at this point, but when I heard you weren’t running a skimmer and had a crash of unknown cause that progressed quickly, this is what I thought might be helpful to throw out there to maybe help next time.
 
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I’m very sorry to hear of this. You’ve gotten some good advice about saving what you can.

There’s what started it, which it often hard to know and you may never find out. Then there’s what turned it into a crash instead of just some limited mortality, which we know more about.

I think running a skimmer is very important to mitigate against the second part. Tank crashes are so crazy because they are a feed-forward problem. Stuff starts dying, which releases dead organics, contributes to a microbe bloom (as well as messing up your good microbiome), which lowers pH and O2, which kills more stuff, etc. Skimming isn’t required all the time when things are going well, leading people to believe they don’t need it, but it absolutely helps when things are going south, even before (especially before) you realize there’s a problem. It’s not just for nutrient control.

Some safety net type benefits of having a skimmer running all the time to reduce the risk of full-tank crashes:

1. Air exchange- adding O2 and blowing off CO2 (protecting against low pH). This can potentially stop the beginning of the crash from feeding-forward and propagating, or at least slow it down to buy you time.
2. Removal of dead organics- this is what the crash is feeding on, so removing as much as possible in real time helps to slow the negative loop.
3. Removal of bacteria blooming- often bacteria blooming is part of the crash, so thinning it out helps.
4. Visual early alert- when you see your skimmer cup filling up with smelly stuff too fast, you know it’s doing a lot of the above steps and you should pay attention. This may be your first warning of an impending crash, before you would otherwise see it.

Again I’m very sorry to hear you are going through this. I realize the above isn’t really helpful to you at this point, but when I heard you weren’t running a skimmer and had a crash of unknown cause that progressed quickly, this is what I thought might be helpful to throw out there to maybe help next time.

Who else immediately went and checked their skimmate after reading this? :p

Great advice
 
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Thanks. Excellent advise. I went ahead and reinstalled the skimmer at 1am. It’s definitely pulling a lot of stuff .

With UV and skimmer , I hope I’ll recover.
 
One other thought, if you pulled all the live stuff out, it seems like you might as well switch to 100% water changes over smaller ones. Get all the junk out all at once. That's assuming the coral in the tank are lost and you pulled the fish already.

My condolences. That's a downer. Now I'm wishing I'd of reactivated my skimmer before going out of town!
 
One other thought, if you pulled all the live stuff out, it seems like you might as well switch to 100% water changes over smaller ones. Get all the junk out all at once. That's assuming the coral in the tank are lost and you pulled the fish already.

My condolences. That's a downer. Now I'm wishing I'd of reactivated my skimmer before going out of town!
I did not pull all live stuff from the main tank. Half the coral survived so far.
 
One other thought, if you pulled all the live stuff out, it seems like you might as well switch to 100% water changes over smaller ones. Get all the junk out all at once. That's assuming the coral in the tank are lost and you pulled the fish already.

My condolences. That's a downer. Now I'm wishing I'd of reactivated my skimmer before going out of town!

Those of you not running a skimmer - why? Simplicity sake?
 
My mistake is the following. I remove the skimmer and then increase feeding (because I added anthias).

I should have put tue skimmer back but I did not.
 
There is a lot of good information here. Maybe I missed it .

What’s the theory for alk increase without dosing? I understand ph drop - bacteria bloom sucking all the oxygen . Is alk and ph related?

Ph drop = alk increase?
 
There is a lot of good information here. Maybe I missed it .

What’s the theory for alk increase without dosing? I understand ph drop - bacteria bloom sucking all the oxygen . Is alk and ph related?

Ph drop = alk increase?
I posted this earlier in the thread, but alk is produced when nitrate is consumed. RHF has talked about this a lot. I don't know if that's what happened here but it seems plausible if there was a bacterial bloom consuming a ton of nitrate?
 
I posted this earlier in the thread, but alk is produced when nitrate is consumed. RHF has talked about this a lot. I don't know if that's what happened here but it seems plausible if there was a bacterial bloom consuming a ton of nitrate?

Thanks. Yes, nitrate is high. This sort of make sense. I guess continue massive wc is the only thing I can do.
 
Tank still cloudy , maybe slight improvement ( can’t tell for sure)
Measurement this morning:

Alk- 9.1
Ca - 470
Mg 1470
Nitrate - 10
Ph - 7.72

My ca and mg have been historically high. However this is weird as I changed out approximate 80% of the water ( 3x 40% wc) and yet the ca and mg are still high. I’ll need the test new saltwater mix to see where they are.
 
If you use NSW you won’t need to worry about strange element numbers
And..I will also question your test kits and methods
The NSW is ideal
At this point you’re just trying to achieve stability
 
If you use NSW you won’t need to worry about strange element numbers
And..I will also question your test kits and methods
The NSW is ideal
At this point you’re just trying to achieve stability
Good point.

Can I get nsw from Neptune? If not , where I can get NSW?

I’m about to throw the towel soon and restart. There are a couple of encrusting coral I cannot easily remove. Otherwise , I will drain and reset. A large colony of monti sentosa and another green monti seems to be unaffected. I frag a couple of small pieces.

I frag as much as I can and put them in a 10g tank,

Since this morning, alk is rapidly rising, it’s 10 now. Either both Hanna and Alkatronic is off, I feel like I’m at the end of the road. I can’t be changing multiple 40% water everyday.

Sometime is terribly off and wc alone doesn’t seem to help.
 
Anyone can help frag encrusting coral from my tank? Any tips?
the coral are on the bottom glass . I don’t want to lose the coral but I am afraid of cracking the glass.

Is it worth it to safe the coral?
 
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