Neptune Aquatics

Grafted simplex

[quote author=Radiolunatic link=topic=3749.msg43723#msg43723 date=1211438383]
:eek:

I am on a business trip here in Oregon. Today, I saw a second grafted SPS here and I did not believe my eyes. This grafted stuff is actually happening in
Oregon tort. Anyway, I could not believe my eyes. The green part is as bright as the blue one. I asked what is that and he explain that it seems another SPS symbiotic got transfered to the Oregon Tort. I asked the owner if he can sell me a frag twice and he said no twice too. He is growing it and he can put me in the wait list when it is available. He said he has been asked 100 times and he always said no. I asked him how this can happen and he does not know either. Nothing touching that tort, but the green part coming from different SPS. He said he has another coral that doing the same thing and he show me too. Unfotunately the grafted portion is not so obvious as the oregon tort. It was torquise color transfer to blue SPS. Well, in my opinion, that can be a switching color due to different lighting or water parameter, but I can be wrong. Anyway, right now, I am sitting here with an excitement because I got to see this phenomenal and waiting my turn to get the frag. He said it can be as long as 4 years. Oh well. Sorry I can not release the location and owner at this time, as he does not want to be bombarded with e-mail on that. I do not want he upset with me and wipe me from the wait list :) The goal is to bring this piece back to BAR and hopefully we can grow it too.
Today, I finally come to conclusion that this thing can happen in the nature. Not necessary by 2 coral touching each other, but just by the water transport too. How and what condition that trigger this ... still unknown. However, if I will be a marine biologist and need to do desertation ... this will be my topic ...:) WOW ... I still can't believe my eye. :eek:
[/quote]

Very cool, next time snap a picture. :)
 
pigment production is defined by genes, so some how you had to either have 1) gene inclusion 2) gene swapping 3) symbiosis of 2 organisms 4) genetic mutation which survives
 
Not sure but I've seen a thread about someone taking a syringe to a zoanthid and transfering the the zooxanthellae to another zoanthid causing a color change.
 
Bio-optical modeling of photosynthetic pigments in corals
Eric J. Hochberg, Amy M. Apprill, Marlin J. Atkinson and Robert R. Bidigare
Journal: Coral Reefs
Issue: Volume 25, Number 1 / March, 2006


Zooxanthellae have the major photosynthetic pigments chlorophyll a, chlorophyll c2, peridinin, diadinoxanthin, diatoxanthin, and b-carotene (Jeffrey and Haxo 1968; Brown et al. 1999b). Peridinin is a diagnostic pigment for (i.e., unique to) dinoflagellates (Kirk 1994), and high concentrations of this lightharvesting pigment give zooxanthellae their characteristic golden-brown color [relative to the predominantly
green color of chlorophyll (Jeffrey and Haxo 1968)].
Click to expand...
 
Coral is made up of many tiny polyps that are attached to each other by a calcium carbonate skeleton that they secrete. Alone, all coral would be white, the color of the calcium carbonate skeleton. However, each polyp contains several unicellular yellow-brown dinoflagellate algae called zooxanthellae. These zooxanthellae have a symbiotic relationship with the coral. The coral provides protection and access to light for the zooxanthellae and the zooxanthellae provide nutrients for the coral via photosynthesis. Since the zooxanthellae must accomplish photosynthesis, they are filled with various pigments to absorb sunlight. It is these pigments that give coral its color.



So it may not be the zooxanthellae itself but different pigments within the zooxanthellae. How else would you why explain a coral that looses it zooxanthellae looses all its color.


http://invertebrates.si.edu/cnidarians.htm
 
http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/s_tyree_060202.html
Steve Tyree

Stony Coral Pigments, Algae Pigments and Captive Lighting


Section II - Light Collecting Pigments within the Coral Animal

The brown coloration within photosynthetic stony corals is due to the light collecting pigments found within the corals symbiotic algae. Photosynthetic stony corals can also possess many other colors that range from violets, blues, greens, yellows, oranges to reds and can include numerous combinations and shades of these primary colors. All these exotic colorations are due to pigments found within the tissue of the coral animal, and not within the symbiodinium.
Click to expand...
 
[quote author=iani link=topic=3749.msg43741#msg43741 date=1211475595]
[quote author=Radiolunatic link=topic=3749.msg43723#msg43723 date=1211438383]
:eek:

I am on a business trip here in Oregon. Today, I saw a second grafted SPS here and I did not believe my eyes. This grafted stuff is actually happening in
Oregon tort. Anyway, I could not believe my eyes. The green part is as bright as the blue one. I asked what is that and he explain that it seems another SPS symbiotic got transfered to the Oregon Tort. I asked the owner if he can sell me a frag twice and he said no twice too. He is growing it and he can put me in the wait list when it is available. He said he has been asked 100 times and he always said no. I asked him how this can happen and he does not know either. Nothing touching that tort, but the green part coming from different SPS. He said he has another coral that doing the same thing and he show me too. Unfotunately the grafted portion is not so obvious as the oregon tort. It was torquise color transfer to blue SPS. Well, in my opinion, that can be a switching color due to different lighting or water parameter, but I can be wrong. Anyway, right now, I am sitting here with an excitement because I got to see this phenomenal and waiting my turn to get the frag. He said it can be as long as 4 years. Oh well. Sorry I can not release the location and owner at this time, as he does not want to be bombarded with e-mail on that. I do not want he upset with me and wipe me from the wait list :) The goal is to bring this piece back to BAR and hopefully we can grow it too.
Today, I finally come to conclusion that this thing can happen in the nature. Not necessary by 2 coral touching each other, but just by the water transport too. How and what condition that trigger this ... still unknown. However, if I will be a marine biologist and need to do desertation ... this will be my topic ...:) WOW ... I still can't believe my eye. :eek:
[/quote]

Very cool, next time snap a picture. :)
[/quote]

I wish I can, but I am pretty sure he will not allow me to do so. Plus my camera is sucks anyway. This colony is in his most top tank (his propogation/frag tank is in layers, similar to Tropical Oasis style) and if I do not use a ladder and climb up, I will not find that. If you are not familiar with grafted SPS, you will miss it too, as only some portion of the tort has the green portion. In one of the frag, the frag split in half almost from top to bottom. Half is bright green and half is bright blue ... it is just crazy. I spent about 10 minutes staring and figure out if that stuff is grafted or just oregon tort with diff lighting scheme. ORA/Cali tort will have some green portion under certain lighting ... but this is not this one. Finally I asked the owner and he confirmed as I explained earlier. This one is definetely Oregon tort and it is the original lineage of Oregon tort. Hey ... I am in Oregon as a matter of fact ... so it is Oregon tort.
Anyway, let's sit back and relax ... keep it quiet ... it is exist and one day hopefully I can bring it to Bay Area. When I am able to grow it more, some people in BAR will get a portion for insurance and then it will go to DBTC Ultimate Super Power LE ... :)
You all know how slow Oregon Tort is growing, so do not expect to see this coral soon. In any business trip to Oregon area, I will make time to visit this guy again to check out the progress. As of yesterday, he has only about 2/3 frags to grow further and the mother colony. I am on his 5th or 6th of his waiting list.
 
[quote author=Gomer link=topic=3749.msg43761#msg43761 date=1211483743]
http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/s_tyree_060202.html
Steve Tyree

Stony Coral Pigments, Algae Pigments and Captive Lighting


Section II - Light Collecting Pigments within the Coral Animal

The brown coloration within photosynthetic stony corals is due to the light collecting pigments found within the corals symbiotic algae. Photosynthetic stony corals can also possess many other colors that range from violets, blues, greens, yellows, oranges to reds and can include numerous combinations and shades of these primary colors. All these exotic colorations are due to pigments found within the tissue of the coral animal, and not within the symbiodinium.
Click to expand...


[/quote]

Alright you win haha. But is Steve Tyree more knowledgeable than the Smithsonian Institute? ;D
 
[quote author=Radiolunatic link=topic=3749.msg43762#msg43762 date=1211483976]
[quote author=iani link=topic=3749.msg43741#msg43741 date=1211475595]
[quote author=Radiolunatic link=topic=3749.msg43723#msg43723 date=1211438383]
:eek:

I am on a business trip here in Oregon. Today, I saw a second grafted SPS here and I did not believe my eyes. This grafted stuff is actually happening in
Oregon tort. Anyway, I could not believe my eyes. The green part is as bright as the blue one. I asked what is that and he explain that it seems another SPS symbiotic got transfered to the Oregon Tort. I asked the owner if he can sell me a frag twice and he said no twice too. He is growing it and he can put me in the wait list when it is available. He said he has been asked 100 times and he always said no. I asked him how this can happen and he does not know either. Nothing touching that tort, but the green part coming from different SPS. He said he has another coral that doing the same thing and he show me too. Unfotunately the grafted portion is not so obvious as the oregon tort. It was torquise color transfer to blue SPS. Well, in my opinion, that can be a switching color due to different lighting or water parameter, but I can be wrong. Anyway, right now, I am sitting here with an excitement because I got to see this phenomenal and waiting my turn to get the frag. He said it can be as long as 4 years. Oh well. Sorry I can not release the location and owner at this time, as he does not want to be bombarded with e-mail on that. I do not want he upset with me and wipe me from the wait list :) The goal is to bring this piece back to BAR and hopefully we can grow it too.
Today, I finally come to conclusion that this thing can happen in the nature. Not necessary by 2 coral touching each other, but just by the water transport too. How and what condition that trigger this ... still unknown. However, if I will be a marine biologist and need to do desertation ... this will be my topic ...:) WOW ... I still can't believe my eye. :eek:
[/quote]

Very cool, next time snap a picture. :)
[/quote]

I wish I can, but I am pretty sure he will not allow me to do so. Plus my camera is sucks anyway. This colony is in his most top tank (his propogation/frag tank is in layers, similar to Tropical Oasis style) and if I do not use a ladder and climb up, I will not find that. If you are not familiar with grafted SPS, you will miss it too, as only some portion of the tort has the green portion. In one of the frag, the frag split in half almost from top to bottom. Half is bright green and half is bright blue ... it is just crazy. I spent about 10 minutes staring and figure out if that stuff is grafted or just oregon tort with diff lighting scheme. ORA/Cali tort will have some green portion under certain lighting ... but this is not this one. Finally I asked the owner and he confirmed as I explained earlier. This one is definetely Oregon tort and it is the original lineage of Oregon tort. Hey ... I am in Oregon as a matter of fact ... so it is Oregon tort.
Anyway, let's sit back and relax ... keep it quiet ... it is exist and one day hopefully I can bring it to Bay Area. When I am able to grow it more, some people in BAR will get a portion for insurance and then it will go to DBTC Ultimate Super Power LE ... :)
You all know how slow Oregon Tort is growing, so do not expect to see this coral soon. In any business trip to Oregon area, I will make time to visit this guy again to check out the progress. As of yesterday, he has only about 2/3 frags to grow further and the mother colony. I am on his 5th or 6th of his waiting list.

[/quote]

Cool, Roy. Yeah the oregon tort grows painfully slow.
 
[quote author=Gomer link=topic=3749.msg43742#msg43742 date=1211475826]
pigment production is defined by genes, so some how you had to either have 1) gene inclusion 2) gene swapping 3) symbiosis of 2 organisms 4) genetic mutation which survives


[/quote]I guess #3, do I win anything?
 
[quote author=Gomer link=topic=3749.msg43772#msg43772 date=1211490750]
it is only mutualism if both organisms gain. I don't know if that is quite the case :p
[/quote]They seem to grow well together.

You know your only frustrated because you want a frag don't have one :'( neener neener neener :D
 
I thought symbiosis is just a generic relation ship between 2 organisms, and mutualism, commensalism, and parasitism are the 3 categories of symbiosis.
 
Yea, i just checked my lecture notes, and noticed its how they teach it in our infectous disease class, so it might be more from a pharmacological perspective rather than the common generalization...my bad Tony
 
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