Neptune Aquatics

Mindstream monitor seems to be available

rygh

rygh

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Just got a message that they are ready and taking orders.
Supposedly shipping in 6-8 weeks.

Product looks good. Might be a tough call between Midstream, Trident, etc.
It does the key Alk + Ca of course.
But having Magnesium and Potassium would really be nice.
And a secondary backup measurement on Salinity and PH would not hurt.

Not cheap!
$1000 for system, and $35/month subscription.

https://www.mindstreamh2o.com/product
 
sfsuphysics said:
Monitoring only I thought, so that's one big negative compared to Trident
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The trident only doses if you're using Apex and have a DOS.

If you don't already own an apex, getting a head unit and a trident is way more than the mindstream unit if you're looking for testing.

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I’ll be purchasing one. A lot of positives; no reagents to deal with, continuous monitoring which will be good if adding kalk to increase ph, easy to adjust dosing, and a big plus if you have multiple tanks is that it can easily switched between tanks therefore saves money on reagents and testing time. Biggest negative I see is that the company needs to stay in business and secondary the cost is high, but in this hobby what isn’t.
 
grizfyrfyter said:
The trident only doses if you're using Apex and have a DOS.

If you don't already own an apex, getting a head unit and a trident is way more than the mindstream unit if you're looking for testing.

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I mean sure if your going in with that idea, either you have a controller that's not compatible or whatever, then sure the Apex plus Trident is more expensive by but end of day you still can control stuff with that if that matters to you, plus you get the added benefits of another controller
 
sfsuphysics said:
I mean sure if your going in with that idea, either you have a controller that's not compatible or whatever, then sure the Apex plus Trident is more expensive by but end of day you still can control stuff with that if that matters to you, plus you get the added benefits of another controller
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Agreed. The mindstream makes no sense for me. I have an apex compatible with but I use a third party dosing system. Mind stream at $1k or trident for $700 is a no brainer.

I don't think mindstream can be competitive as is. There are too many better options. Even the khguardian is apex compatible for logging and can have its own dosing pumps for the same price as a trident.

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Yeah Mindstream has been "in development" for a LOOOOONG time.

I'm wondering if the price on this is based on some manufacturing + markup cost, or if there's R&D (i.e. who ever funded it) wanting to get their payday (or paid back). $1k is quite a steep price for something that is a monitor.


grizfyrfyter said:
Even the khguardian is apex compatible for logging and can have its own dosing pumps for the same price as a trident.
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Seems to me dosers should include external programmable inputs. Then people wouldn't feel like they "need" to get the DOS in order to dose stuff, simply get a set of values from the KH Guardian, have programming that sends another signal based on that data to a 3rd party doser, and then people might want to buy your doser because it's "Apex Compatible"
 
That would be the consumer friendly way to do it.

Maybe the trident has this function, I haven't looked into it. It would be nice if it had a dosing calculator we can access. Give it the system parameters and based on testing and current dosing amounts, it would just give you dosing volume changes. I won't buy a DOS to replace my 4 head coral box dosing pump but I would be more inclined to get a trident if it fed me values to reach my desired parameters.

I know this can be accomplished with a phone app but consolidating this stuff into one OS is my entire draw towards apex.

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I am still VERY leery of letting something like Trident actually control Alk.
I know how unreliably even simple things like PH and Salinity can be. This has to be way more complex.
So separate does not matter to me.
It is trivial for me to look at data, go to fusion, and tweak pump rates. If something seems weird, hand test to double check.

My cynical concern : The timing is a bit scary.
Trident comes out, sales look good, and suddenly Mindstream takes pre-orders.
It is their last chance. They must ship. So who knows what state it is really in.
 
rygh said:
I am still VERY leery of letting something like Trident actually control Alk.
I know how unreliably even simple things like PH and Salinity can be. This has to be way more complex.
So separate does not matter to me.
It is trivial for me to look at data, go to fusion, and tweak pump rates. If something seems weird, hand test to double check.

My cynical concern : The timing is a bit scary.
Trident comes out, sales look good, and suddenly Mindstream takes pre-orders.
It is their last chance. They must ship. So who knows what state it is really in.
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Both good points
 
Seems to me like 1k is like $800 overpriced.

But then again, the trident and alkatronic are also way overpriced for what you get.

Honestly, this seems better than both. No reagents and no monster sized equipment to stuff in an already packed stand.
 
I've stopped doing kickstarters and pre-orders like this. The people doing them generally have no idea how to get something into the hands of the consumers and it inevitably takes about 5 times longer than they advertise. In this case, you are now paying full price for a product that may get shipped 6-8 weeks in the future and we have no idea how, or even if, it performs.

Also, "Subscription plans start at $34.95/month and will be purchased within the MindStream web app after you have received your monitor."

I think the only consumable is the disk, but that wording seems to leave some wiggle room for subscriptions that are more expensive than $35. Maybe you can buy alk at $35 and then $5 for each additional parameter? Maybe a subscription with online access is more expensive? You won't know until you get the product!

I'd actually prefer something that tests separately from dosing, so I'd be interested. That's a significant investment with a company that has zero track record and a product that took 6 years for them to bring to market!
 
The cost does not really surprise me so much.
These are low volume products. The only way to make any money is to charge a premium.
We would all like it to be cheaper, but hard to complain about.

I would bet the monthly cost remains close to $35.
But I worry about production. That disc is a pretty specialized chemical/mechanical device.
Almost certainly single source, and any hiccup means no testing.

As a reminder, Trident seems horribly back ordered as well.

I think my plan - wait 6 months, see who can really produce in volume,
and see real reviews start to trickle in on all 3 vendors.
 
Interesting. What’s your take on the fine print at the bottom?


* The MindStream Monitor measures Carbonate Alkalinity, which is the form of alkalinity necessary to promote vibrant coral growth. Other methods measure total alkalinity, which includes carbonate, borate, and other ions and therefore are not a true representation of the amount of carbonates available for coral growth.

** The MindStream Monitor provides an analytically-derived pH Probe Equivalent graph by default. This compares to results from consumer-grade, potentiometric pH probes commonly used in saltwater aquariums. Behind the scenes, the MindStream Monitor tracks Total pH using an optical system that removes saltwater interference. MindStream Monitor settings may be changed to display Total pH, a measure preferred by oceanographers and chemists.”

*** The MindStream Monitor provides a more effective indication of ammonia toxicity by measuring ammonia in its most toxic gaseous form. Many test kits report the less toxic ammonium ion concentration.


I don’t know enough about the intricacies of chemistry to know if some of this is marketing hype or if it’s actually beneficial.

The $1000 price tag is a lot but I don’t think it’s unreasonable. What gets me is the subscription. So many companies are jumping on the bandwagon because they are great for business but is it really necessary?

I thought I remember them advertising nitrates and phosphates as testable as well. That was a couple years ago though. Does anyone else remember that?
 
They did do kickstarters a few times since 2015.
If they did not deliver, would you get your money back?
 
Flagg37 said:
Interesting. What’s your take on the fine print at the bottom?


* The MindStream Monitor measures Carbonate Alkalinity, which is the form of alkalinity necessary to promote vibrant coral growth. Other methods measure total alkalinity, which includes carbonate, borate, and other ions and therefore are not a true representation of the amount of carbonates available for coral growth.

** The MindStream Monitor provides an analytically-derived pH Probe Equivalent graph by default. This compares to results from consumer-grade, potentiometric pH probes commonly used in saltwater aquariums. Behind the scenes, the MindStream Monitor tracks Total pH using an optical system that removes saltwater interference. MindStream Monitor settings may be changed to display Total pH, a measure preferred by oceanographers and chemists.”

*** The MindStream Monitor provides a more effective indication of ammonia toxicity by measuring ammonia in its most toxic gaseous form. Many test kits report the less toxic ammonium ion concentration.


I don’t know enough about the intricacies of chemistry to know if some of this is marketing hype or if it’s actually beneficial.

The $1000 price tag is a lot but I don’t think it’s unreasonable. What gets me is the subscription. So many companies are jumping on the bandwagon because they are great for business but is it really necessary?

I thought I remember them advertising nitrates and phosphates as testable as well. That was a couple years ago though. Does anyone else remember that?
Click to expand...

Since changes generally matter more than actual values, I see that as mostly marketing hype.
Ammonia is generally a non-issue, much like O2.

The one big plus that may matter is that no calibration is needed.
Unlike all the probes I have that I generally forget to do.

Also, since the disc needs full replacement, it may not clog up like the tubes and such for the Triton/etc.


Pretty sure the subscription is to get new disks, so rather hard to avoid. Not just a business choice.
 
rygh said:
Pretty sure the subscription is to get new disks, so rather hard to avoid. Not just a business choice.
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Yeah if it's anything like the Seneye their little "discs" start breaking down the minute they get wet, I remember asking if you could just periodically put it in the tank and extend the life... like the cheap ass that I am :D
 
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