Need Some Drain & Sump Wisdom

[ReyDeFarts]

BAR, we need your expertise!
@a.little.hypertonic was fortunate enough to pick up a tank from @Srt4eric that @popper gave to the club! Thanks again gents!

Plan for this tank is she wants a zoa paradise with some splashes of macro algae. Not sure how that's going to work with clean up crews... but I'm just rolling with it.

So to me, that means we don't need crazy amount of flow nor a super clean tank. Right?!

This is not its final location.

I want to get this running without the hassle of extra drilling and too many additional expenses. So as much as I understand the ease of an external overflow box, and drilling holes for them, I'd rather not go that route. This is a budget build! That's the goal.

This is where your experience working with sumps comes into the mix for us. I've never set one up. I'd like to get it setup as foolproof as possible from the start. With the intent of having easy access for maintenance.

This tank has an internal overflow box with 3 drilled holes at the bottom.

It did come with some of the plumbing, which is still usable thankfully. Mainly the 1.5" drain. There's an air gap hole at the top of the drain, which is to help with surging/gurgling correct? I'd prefer a gate valve for it, but I'm going to see if I can dial it in with a DC pump and only require minor tweaks to the ball valve. Ideally, I'd like it either open or closed. If that doesn't work, then I will modify it to a standard sized pipe and install a gate valve.

The two additional holes are smaller. My plan was to utilize the existing makeshift bulkhead for the return. Then have the second one as an emergency drain. Is that a good idea? Or is a single drain ok and just have dual returns so that I can have two return pumps? I could have dual return pumps with a single line anyway, which is why I thought about having an emergency drain.

Is there a better idea I am not thinking about?

Thanks again @robert4025 of Neptune's for having a some key parts available yesterday.

These are not standard bulkhead holes unfortunately, so it makes it a little tougher. But the plan is to pick up some parts to make DIY bulkheads for the small holes and make them a standard size. After that is solved, it should be straight forward.

The sump that Eric gave us is roughly 17 gallons. I'm not sure if this came with the tank originally or if it was just an extra sump he had lying around. Either way, thanks for the extra piece of equipment to getting us closer to the objective.

How would you set this up? Drain(s) come into one of two chambers on the right, correct? Or both?

Stand needs a fair amount of TLC...

The middle support was modified to be able to remove it easily be a need to remove the sump which is nice. This would seem sketchy if the tank was filled though. As in, would need a jack to relieve some of the weight. I think I'd rather not do that! I'd like to get it where it would be best and leave it!

Which way would you put this in? With the drains closest to you, leaving extra space on the side? Seems like this would be easy access to the two spaces that will get the dirtiest. I'm not sure though.

Or this way? Leaving less space for storage on the side, but having space in front of it?

I think that's a lot of questions. TIA

Oh, and we ended our visit in SJ with @Matthew Meyer offering my child some shots...

 

[MichaelB]

BAR, we need your expertise!
@a.little.hypertonic was fortunate enough to pick up a tank from @Srt4eric that @popper gave to the club! Thanks again gents!

Plan for this tank is she wants a zoa paradise with some splashes of macro algae. Not sure how that's going to work with clean up crews... but I'm just rolling with it.

So to me, that means we don't need crazy amount of flow nor a super clean tank. Right?!

View attachment 62302
This is not its final location.

I want to get this running without the hassle of extra drilling and too many additional expenses. So as much as I understand the ease of an external overflow box, and drilling holes for them, I'd rather not go that route. This is a budget build! That's the goal.

This is where your experience working with sumps comes into the mix for us. I've never set one up. I'd like to get it setup as foolproof as possible from the start. With the intent of having easy access for maintenance.

This tank has an internal overflow box with 3 drilled holes at the bottom.
View attachment 62301
View attachment 62300

View attachment 62337
It did come with some of the plumbing, which is still usable thankfully. Mainly the 1.5" drain. There's an air gap hole at the top of the drain, which is to help with surging/gurgling correct? I'd prefer a gate valve for it, but I'm going to see if I can dial it in with a DC pump and only require minor tweaks to the ball valve. Ideally, I'd like it either open or closed. If that doesn't work, then I will modify it to a standard sized pipe and install a gate valve.

The two additional holes are smaller. My plan was to utilize the existing makeshift bulkhead for the return. Then have the second one as an emergency drain. Is that a good idea? Or is a single drain ok and just have dual returns so that I can have two return pumps? I could have dual return pumps with a single line anyway, which is why I thought about having an emergency drain.

Is there a better idea I am not thinking about?

Thanks again @robert4025 of Neptune's for having a some key parts available yesterday.
View attachment 62341
These are not standard bulkhead holes unfortunately, so it makes it a little tougher. But the plan is to pick up some parts to make DIY bulkheads for the small holes and make them a standard size. After that is solved, it should be straight forward.

The sump that Eric gave us is roughly 17 gallons. I'm not sure if this came with the tank originally or if it was just an extra sump he had lying around. Either way, thanks for the extra piece of equipment to getting us closer to the objective.

How would you set this up? Drain(s) come into one of two chambers on the right, correct? Or both?
View attachment 62338

Stand needs a fair amount of TLC...

The middle support was modified to be able to remove it easily be a need to remove the sump which is nice. This would seem sketchy if the tank was filled though. As in, would need a jack to relieve some of the weight. I think I'd rather not do that! I'd like to get it where it would be best and leave it!
View attachment 62339

Which way would you put this in? With the drains closest to you, leaving extra space on the side? Seems like this would be easy access to the two spaces that will get the dirtiest. I'm not sure though.
View attachment 62348
Or this way? Leaving less space for storage on the side, but having space in front of it?
View attachment 62349

I think that's a lot of questions. TIA

Oh, and we ended our visit in SJ with @Matthew Meyer offering my child some shots...
View attachment 62340

I would get imput from @MarcosDelgado0 i think he had a general plan in his mind for this anyway. I recall something about it being a metric sized hole or whatever. Possibly something they use over seas.

From what eric told me you definitely want more than one drain a single drain is basically nothing short of stupidity and a flooded floor in the future. No expert advice just something the older members here told me with my current 65gallon.

I used the existing holes for the drain and emergency drain. Than I got one of these from Amazon for a over the back return.

Return Jet Assembly with Directional Return (Single Pack) - Fits Eshopps https://a.co/d/blHIYBK
This is the one modification i had to make raised this up by using a hose and ziptie under it to raise the level of it to prevent a reverse siphon in power outsides (other methods could have worked but this felt fool proof.)

This type of high pressure braided hose.

DERPIPE Soft Braided PVC Tubing - 3/4" ID x 1" OD High Pressure Clear Flexible PVC Tube Reinforced Vinyl Hose for Water, Oil with 2pcs Hose Clamps (10Ft) https://a.co/d/1lqpzkW

Instead of the metal screw clamps I got some of these plastic hose clamps for extra security on the hose ends to to overflow elbow and the return pump section.


I had one of these that screwed into my return pump directly the hose to the barbed end with plastic clamp.

Taukealugs 56-Pcs Heavy Duty Speedy Double Snap Grip Nylon plastic Hose Clamps assortments-1/4inch,5/16inch,1/2inch,5/8inch,1inch https://a.co/d/gJUZhgU

My tank

It was budget compared to many here, but I definitely bought a few things for peice of mind and to ensure things worked properly. I didn't wanna cheap out to the point of risking a flooded floor.

 

[Coral reefer]

I’d use all 3 holes for a beam animal setup

 

[MarcosDelgado0]

I’d use all 3 holes for a beam animal setup

This. I would not plumb the tank how it is originally. Andy you could use all three as drains and then drill returns, or even just plumb them over the top (less nice aesthetically but if you don’t want to drill).

 

[Kensington Reefer]

I would use the 1” and one of the 3/4” for drain
And other for the return
Keep is simple...

 

[MarcosDelgado0]

I think that’s the sump I gave to Eric. These are the specs in case it helps.

SUMP SPEC:
VOLUMES
16 GALLONS
EXTERNAL DIMENSION
L x W x H
19.75 x 16.5 x 13 INCHES
CHAMBER #1
L x W [DRAIN]
7.82 x 7.09 INCHES
CHAMBER #2
L x W [SKIMMER]
7.82 x 7.09 INCHES
CHAMBER #3
L x W [REFUGIUM]
16.35 x 3.86 INCHES
CHAMBER #4
L x W [RETURN PUMP]
16.35 x 5.91 INCHES

 

[MarcosDelgado0]

I would use the 1” and one of the 3/4” for drain
And other for the return
Keep is simple...

Would you still recommend using only two drains if they’re smaller? I know the drains are in metric but the smaller hole is less than 1/2” because a 1/2” bulkhead is too big. I’d feel better about two drains if they were 1” and 3/4” but a less than 1/2” drain? Never seen anyone plumb a drain that small

 

[yosemiteclimber]

I would use the 1” and one of the 3/4” for drain
And other for the return
Keep is simple...

I was thinking the same, 1” for primary drain, 3/4” for secondary (herbie) and the other 3/4” for return if you aren’t “too worried” about flow. Otherwise you could cap it (or do bean as mentioned) and y the return with hob returns on either side as shown above.

 

[MarcosDelgado0]

I was thinking the same, 1” for primary drain, 3/4” for secondary (herbie) and the other 3/4” for return if you aren’t “too worried” about flow. Otherwise you could cap it (or do bean as mentioned) and y the return with hob returns on either side as shown above.

The problem is I’m pretty sure those aren’t 3/4”. They’re something like 1/2” in metric. But 1/2” bulkheads are too big for those metric holes so they’re even smaller than 1/2”

 

[yosemiteclimber]

The problem is I’m pretty sure those aren’t 3/4”. They’re something like 1/2” in metric. But 1/2” bulkheads are too big for those metric holes so they’re even smaller than 1/2”

Yeah there are EU/metric sizes as well, here’s a cheat sheet that shows min/max sizes for imperial vs metric:

How To Select and Properly Install Aquarium Bulkheads

Bulkheads allow you to transfer water from one side of an aquarium to the other and allow for traditional PVC plumbing to be connected. In most aquariums, bulkheads are used for drain and return pipes on your display tank but can be used for many other things too. Some tanks come pre-drilled for...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[MarcosDelgado0]

This is what I found on that stock plumbing and the union you’ll need to change it to standard plumbing

 

[Kensington Reefer]

Ewwww metric
Sorry I didn’t read that carfully.

 

[ReyDeFarts]

Thanks for the back and forth fellas

I’d use all 3 holes for a beam animal setup

This. I would not plumb the tank how it is originally. Andy you could use all three as drains and then drill returns, or even just plumb them over the top (less nice aesthetically but if you don’t want to drill).

I did think about that, but I was honestly hoping to avoid any drilling. But I suppose it wouldn't be much effort or expense to drill a couple holes on each side for returns. I'm assuming this would be the best option then?

The problem is I’m pretty sure those aren’t 3/4”. They’re something like 1/2” in metric. But 1/2” bulkheads are too big for those metric holes so they’re even smaller than 1/2”

So the holes are actually slightly larger than 3/4"/20mm OD.
The fittings and plumbing are closer to 1/2" ID.

The primary drain is just over 1.5"/40mm OD. I imagine it would take quite a bit of something to clog that drain, right?!

I was thinking the same, 1” for primary drain, 3/4” for secondary (herbie) and the other 3/4” for return if you aren’t “too worried” about flow. Otherwise you could cap it (or do bean as mentioned) and y the return with hob returns on either side as shown above.

This was my initial thought we well. Plan was to install some small wavemakers anyway for flow. But with a large enough return pump and if I split the flow, I imagine I could get some decent movement. I wanted to do a LocLine tee here and have it pointing in opposite directions.

DIY bulkheads are holding.
Only hand tight.
1/2" x 1" nipple to 1/2" FPT x Slip on both sides with a washer on the wet side. I may use a small bead of silicone before the final installation for added security. This is just in case I cannot find actual bulkheads that fit.

I am not thrilled with the setup of the primary drain. Trying to tighten it from the inside of the overflow box sucks. It's all glued underneath. I will be cutting it above the ball valve and installing a metric x standard coupling. Then proceed with installing unions and a gate valve.

I also picked up a gloss black paint pen to see if I could use that for basic touch ups on the stand. It doesn't look half bad! Up close in the picture, you can clearly see the freshly painted section on the left versus the exposed wood on the right. I'd prefer to not do a complete refinish of the stand. So this just might do the job.

Maybe I can convince @a.little.hypertonic to have a sticker stand?!?

 

[RandyC]

I’d make it two drains and a return, but the largest should be the emergency drain. The emergency drain should always be able to handle the entire flow of the tank and I don’t think that 1/2” drain would be enough for that. If you have enough space to get a larger bulkhead in on the right hole (from top view), I’d drill and make that hole bigger.

But to be honest, if it was me, I’d rip out that internal overflow and gain some real estate back for livestock. Cover those holes with a piece of 1/4” glass and silicon and then drill in an external overflow and two 3/4” returns.

But hey, I like DIY projects setting up new tanks.

 

[Arvin R]

I’d make it two drains and a return, but the largest should be the emergency drain. The emergency drain should always be able to handle the entire flow of the tank and I don’t think that 1/2” drain would be enough for that. If you have enough space to get a larger bulkhead in on the right hole (from top view), I’d drill and make that hole bigger.

But to be honest, if it was me, I’d rip out that internal overflow and gain some real estate back for livestock. Cover those holes with a piece of 1/4” glass and silicon and then drill in an external overflow and two 3/4” returns.

But hey, I like DIY projects setting up new tanks.

I would 2nd this action. You'll save yourself headaches later on dealing with metric plumbing sizes and have a better running tank if you cover up these holes and drill for/install an external overflow.

 

[Turkeysammich]

I would check that ball valve. Those get crusty over time and fail.

 

[ReyDeFarts]

I’d make it two drains and a return, but the largest should be the emergency drain. The emergency drain should always be able to handle the entire flow of the tank and I don’t think that 1/2” drain would be enough for that.

I'm not following the logic here. Why wouldn't I want the larger drain as the primary?

But to be honest, if it was me, I’d rip out that internal overflow and gain some real estate back for livestock. Cover those holes with a piece of 1/4” glass and silicon and then drill in an external overflow and two 3/4” returns.

This was a thought. We were hoping to minimize as much cost as possible. Which is why I didn't even mention it. But if we go this route, I'm assuming an overflow that is setup for the bean animal? And who the hell came up with that name btw?!

I would 2nd this action. You'll save yourself headaches later on dealing with metric plumbing sizes and have a better running tank if you cover up these holes and drill for/install an external overflow.

The smaller holes I just converted to standard. So that's already done. The larger pipe, all I need is a coupling adapter. But before I decide on going that route, I'd have to decide on which overflow box to get. I just don't know enough about them. And some of them are expensive.

 

[derek_SR]

I'm not following the logic here. Why wouldn't I want the larger drain as the primary?



This was a thought. We were hoping to minimize as much cost as possible. Which is why I didn't even mention it. But if we go this route, I'm assuming an overflow that is setup for the bean animal? And who the hell came up with that name btw?!

The smaller holes I just converted to standard. So that's already done. The larger pipe, all I need is a coupling adapter. But before I decide on going that route, I'd have to decide on which overflow box to get. I just don't know enough about them. And some of them are expensive.

Bean Animal came up with the name! Or rather, it is named after him for inventing it I believe.

 

[MarcosDelgado0]

I'm not following the logic here. Why wouldn't I want the larger drain as the primary?



This was a thought. We were hoping to minimize as much cost as possible. Which is why I didn't even mention it. But if we go this route, I'm assuming an overflow that is setup for the bean animal? And who the hell came up with that name btw?!

The smaller holes I just converted to standard. So that's already done. The larger pipe, all I need is a coupling adapter. But before I decide on going that route, I'd have to decide on which overflow box to get. I just don't know enough about them. And some of them are expensive.

I like the modular marine ones. But yes they are expensive. I don’t have experience with the other ones so I can’t speak on them, but the Synergy Reef Shadow Overflow was my second option

 

[ReyDeFarts]

I would check that ball valve. Those get crusty over time and fail.

It's usable and in good shape. Also, glycerine is a good way to lubricate the seals in ball valves. It does require a fair amount of flushing. I'm not sure how well it would play with salt water afterwards.

I may not even use it though. If I stick with the existing holes, I'll be cutting it out and converting the metric pipe to standard.