Neptune Trident

[gunit]

As I like to tell my students, understand what those numbers actually mean that come out of the calculator/computer. Also don't fall into the trap of precision = accuracy. The precision of the Apex is +/- 0.05dKh (claimed) that doesn't mean the accuracy is +/- 0.05dKh. Example, a heater that is set to 78°F but regularly turns on off between 71.5 & 72.5° has a precision of +/-0.05°, it's accuracy on the other hand is something to be desired.

But for giggles lets say it is super factory calibrated and that's also it's accuracy, you're right in how much value you actually put into that. How much can/will it fluctuate between actual measurements (this is where precision is key). That said the precision of my red sea test kit I think is 0.14dKh which is determined solely on my ability to put exactly 0.1mL of solution into a bottle but for me, it's good enough. This is very useful for, as my friend Rich Ross likes to say, help with the lazy, if you don't have to do those tests ever again, AND you know they're being done, AND you're getting multiple readings per day not just weekly/biweekly, it really is a win all around. Maybe in the future for me, step one though, get Apex

Yes I mistyped. I meant precision not accuracy. I've never seen published accuracy numbers for it, but I imagine with the calibration solution you'd be talking no more than .5 dKH. But that's be something to verify with a manual test which you trusted the accuracy on. Ultimately though with Alkalinity precision might matter most given that stability is really what we're striving for i.e. whether you're running at 8.5 dKH or 9 dKH doesn't matter much but sticking to that number likely does.

Ultimately whether it is the Trident or some other automated tester I think it's a step in the right direction if they can get to this level of precision. I base this on the level of human error present in testing coupled with hobby grade kits (and that isn't to say you can't be successful doing manual testing because clearly you can)

 

[musclebenz]

I also just added the Neptune DOS to my setup. Having everything in one portal where you can monitor levels and adjust the additives “on the fly” is so convenient

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[Coral reefer]

What’s 48.1 salt mean?

 

[musclebenz]

The salt probe and reading are not very useful on the Neptune, so I ignore this reading unless I see a huge spike up or down. I measure using the Milwaukee refractometer, when I do weekly water changes.

 

[Newjack]

you might want to dial in your tank levels so that when you’re dosing alk & cal. you dose in equal amounts.
I think it’s just good practice.

 

[gunit]

The salt probe and reading are not very useful on the Neptune, so I ignore this reading unless I see a huge spike up or down. I measure using the Milwaukee refractometer, when I do weekly water changes.

Looks like you need to calibrate your salinity probe [emoji3]


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[musclebenz]

Thanks for the input on the dosing.


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[rygh]

Looks like you need to calibrate your salinity probe [emoji3]
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No, that won't entirely fix it.
It is very sensitive to bubbles and crud on the probe.
Sometimes it just moves +/-0.5, for no obvious reason, even with cleaning.
And interestingly, it seems terribly inaccurate with freshly mixed salt water.

 

[Chromis]

I got my Trident too! [emoji3060]

It’s saving me sooo much time. Was easy to setup but did need calibration, so I recommend people wait to adjust anything until that is done. After Calibration the alk reading matches my Red Sea kit. I’m bringing cups of water from my other tanks over to the Trident for measurement so one tank is continuously measured, and the others are tested on demand (you’ll see spikes in my plots where I’m measuring other stuff). I’m having a lot of fun with it. [emoji851]

I’m probably going to switch the Alk into higher sampling and turn my lights off for a day to check the background alk use (by snails, etc). Now I can see the alk consumption after adding Reefroids, Acropower, changing the lighting, etc! What experiments should I try?

 

[musclebenz]

Glad to hear you got one too. I totally agree it makes life so much easier


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[sfsuphysics]

interesting that pH is inversely proportional to alkalinity, I always thought they were proportional to each other. Goes to show I know nothing about chemistry.

 

[Chromis]

interesting that pH is inversely proportional to alkalinity, I always thought they were proportional to each other. Goes to show I know nothing about chemistry.

I think what is happening is the pH is rising due to the corals’ photosynthesis, and alk is meanwhile being consumed by the corals. The second the lights go off the pH starts falling.

 

[JVU]

I think what is happening is the pH is rising due to the corals’ photosynthesis, and alk is meanwhile being consumed by the corals. The second the lights go off the pH starts falling.

Agree. Photosynthesis uses CO2, increasing pH. Separately, photosynthesis gives coral the energy to turn alkalinity (carbonate) into skeleton (calcium carbonate), decreasing alkalinity.

 

[MolaMola]

@Chromis that is really interesting. What do you mean by higher sampling? More frequent? During the period shown on your graph what was the sampling frequency? Also, do you mean that by turning off the lights photosynthesis in corals will drop but continue normally in snail shell formation? Okay, one more question - are Reefroids and Acropower alkalinity supplements or just food? Are you saying food boosts alk consumption?

 

[sfsuphysics]

I think what is happening is the pH is rising due to the corals’ photosynthesis, and alk is meanwhile being consumed by the corals. The second the lights go off the pH starts falling.

Makes enough sense. Although it still is fascinating to see that the when the initial alk drops start pH also drops as well, so there is some relation between pH and alkalinity but maybe up to a point coral up take decreases CO2 faster than pH can drop due to alkalinity uptake? The right as it nears what I can imagine is the end of the light cycle the ph starts to drop again, not knowing anything about your lights/schedule maybe hazard a guess you start/end with violets/blues which may not be as powerful of a motivator pH uptake due to photosynthesis while corals still uptake alkalinity?

Either way, how do you dose your tank? calcium reactor? 2 part? kalkwasser? any plans on trying to flatten out the alkalinity graph? Maybe dose more during the day time? *shrug*

I know, I'm overthinking things.

 

[Chromis]

@Chromis that is really interesting. What do you mean by higher sampling? More frequent? During the period shown on your graph what was the sampling frequency? Also, do you mean that by turning off the lights photosynthesis in corals will drop but continue normally in snail shell formation? Okay, one more question - are Reefroids and Acropower alkalinity supplements or just food? Are you saying food boosts alk consumption?

I like to use the 6 or 8 samples per day setting. It can go as low as 4x per day.

Yea I’m going to check if Alk still drops at a steady background rate when there is no light/photosynthesis. I can see the corals are slow to start using Alk after the lights turn on, then speed up, then slow down after the lights are off but still use Alk for awhile after lights off. So maybe early morning before lights turn on is a good time to check the background alk use due to snails, etc.

Reefroids and Acropower are coral food. If corals foods don’t boost Alk consumption I’m not sure what the point is

 

[Chromis]

Makes enough sense. Although it still is fascinating to see that the when the initial alk drops start pH also drops as well, so there is some relation between pH and alkalinity but maybe up to a point coral up take decreases CO2 faster than pH can drop due to alkalinity uptake? The right as it nears what I can imagine is the end of the light cycle the ph starts to drop again, not knowing anything about your lights/schedule maybe hazard a guess you start/end with violets/blues which may not be as powerful of a motivator pH uptake due to photosynthesis while corals still uptake alkalinity?

Either way, how do you dose your tank? calcium reactor? 2 part? kalkwasser? any plans on trying to flatten out the alkalinity graph? Maybe dose more during the day time? *shrug*

I know, I'm overthinking things.

It probably helps to interpret the graph if you knew my lights are on from about 8a-6p, there is a short blue fade in-out, and my two-part Alk doses from about 8-12pm. So, pH starts rising at lights on, starts dropping at lights off, starts rising when the doser is on, starts falling when the doser turns off. Pretty 1-to-1 relationship. The counter cycle algae scrubber doesn’t seem to affect the night pH as far as I can tell. The corals seem to dominate the water pH and Alk levels. I have also not seen a higher Alk- lower pH swing relationship I’m guessing because higher Alk just drives the coral growth up which drives up photosynthesis?