Overflow Single Durso or Double?
- Thread starter humu
- Start date
Coral reefer
Past President
Confused on how that is safer?
I would make one of the returns an emergency drain before trying that.
I would make one of the returns an emergency drain before trying that.
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
+1 to what Mike said, great Mike's think alike!
If you put a tee on the end of the drain, you're still with 1 drain, just two inlets, so if that drain for whatever reason can't handle the flow having an extra opening isn't going to be a relief.
I would tee off a return if you want the return to go shoot out at two locations before I tee of a drain.
If you put a tee on the end of the drain, you're still with 1 drain, just two inlets, so if that drain for whatever reason can't handle the flow having an extra opening isn't going to be a relief.
I would tee off a return if you want the return to go shoot out at two locations before I tee of a drain.
zeroinverse
Guest
Calculate what you want your return pump flow rate will be.
Then look up the "max siphon flow rate".
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/pipe-sizing-charts-and-flow-rates.205645/
If 3/4" will support the max siphon flow rate you want, use that for your primary full siphon drain.
If not, then you will need to use your 1.5" as your primary drain and your 3/4" as your backup.
These configurations will get you the "quiet" overflow. Similar to Bean animal, but slightly not quite as safe.
It is safe enough if you are listening to your drain pipes to make sure they are not clogged.
Example 1
if you expect to do 300GPH, then you use 3/4" as primary drain pipe and put a gate valve to make sure it is at the siphon drain rate to just barely match your return pump rate.
Then your 1.5" will be your emergency/backup drain that will either run dry (or typically people run it at a trickle flow). You control the trickle with the gate valve on the 3/4" primary drain.
Example 2
if you expect to do more than 300GPH (like closer to 1.5" siphon flow of 1300 GPH, then you use 1.5" pipe as primary drain pipe and put a gate valve to make sure it is at the siphon drain rate to just barely match your return pump rate.
Then your 3/4" will be your emergency/backup drain that will either run dry (or typically people run it at a trickle flow). You control the trickle with the gate valve on the 1.5" primary drain.
NOTE: for both drain pipes, the drain pipe going into the sump should be submerged just about 1" below your typical sump water level.
This means the drain chamber in your sump must be a constant water level (typically your skimmer chamber works).
Any deeper than 1" deep will make it hard for air to exit the pipe easily. Too short and you may get more gurgling effects if water level changes a bit and can break the siphon effect.
Then look up the "max siphon flow rate".
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/pipe-sizing-charts-and-flow-rates.205645/
If 3/4" will support the max siphon flow rate you want, use that for your primary full siphon drain.
If not, then you will need to use your 1.5" as your primary drain and your 3/4" as your backup.
These configurations will get you the "quiet" overflow. Similar to Bean animal, but slightly not quite as safe.
It is safe enough if you are listening to your drain pipes to make sure they are not clogged.
Example 1
if you expect to do 300GPH, then you use 3/4" as primary drain pipe and put a gate valve to make sure it is at the siphon drain rate to just barely match your return pump rate.
Then your 1.5" will be your emergency/backup drain that will either run dry (or typically people run it at a trickle flow). You control the trickle with the gate valve on the 3/4" primary drain.
Example 2
if you expect to do more than 300GPH (like closer to 1.5" siphon flow of 1300 GPH, then you use 1.5" pipe as primary drain pipe and put a gate valve to make sure it is at the siphon drain rate to just barely match your return pump rate.
Then your 3/4" will be your emergency/backup drain that will either run dry (or typically people run it at a trickle flow). You control the trickle with the gate valve on the 1.5" primary drain.
NOTE: for both drain pipes, the drain pipe going into the sump should be submerged just about 1" below your typical sump water level.
This means the drain chamber in your sump must be a constant water level (typically your skimmer chamber works).
Any deeper than 1" deep will make it hard for air to exit the pipe easily. Too short and you may get more gurgling effects if water level changes a bit and can break the siphon effect.
humu
Guest
Thanks for the comments and the link for pipe sizing chart...
Return will be handle via ehiem 1260 which is 635 GPH at 0'head and ~410 GPH at 4' head. So 1.5 drain at 1350 GPH max gravitional flow should be enough to handle a double Ehiem 1260 return setup sufficiently. Unless blocked at some point which would be the inlet and hence the reason for T'ing the drain is in case of a block at the inlet. The Inlets will be covered with a bulk head strainer so there shouldn't be a risk of clogging at the split.
I guess I was mainly curious if that would increase the noise level significantly. For this tank, which is going into a casual Thai restaurant, the noise level of the durso should be fine, but if it was to increase increase significantly due to the T then I will probably turn the 3/4 return into a full siphon drain.
Personally, I have a bean-animal drain setup and I do love how safe and silent it is....But I do have occasionally have to adjust the gate valve to make it completely silent...
Return will be handle via ehiem 1260 which is 635 GPH at 0'head and ~410 GPH at 4' head. So 1.5 drain at 1350 GPH max gravitional flow should be enough to handle a double Ehiem 1260 return setup sufficiently. Unless blocked at some point which would be the inlet and hence the reason for T'ing the drain is in case of a block at the inlet. The Inlets will be covered with a bulk head strainer so there shouldn't be a risk of clogging at the split.
I guess I was mainly curious if that would increase the noise level significantly. For this tank, which is going into a casual Thai restaurant, the noise level of the durso should be fine, but if it was to increase increase significantly due to the T then I will probably turn the 3/4 return into a full siphon drain.
Personally, I have a bean-animal drain setup and I do love how safe and silent it is....But I do have occasionally have to adjust the gate valve to make it completely silent...
zeroinverse
Guest
A 1.5" T off will take up a lot of space in the overflow chamber. You may not even have space. The T is huge and you may have to shorten the T sockets and shorten the insert sections also.
Also, both of those T'd siphon drains would need to be about 3-4" under water if you use the full siphon method.
But since it will be in a restaurant, there will probably be more ambient noise so need to be silent. If anything else, a bit of water gurgling may sound nice in a Thai restaurant. Sort of like a waterfall sound.
Also, both of those T'd siphon drains would need to be about 3-4" under water if you use the full siphon method.
But since it will be in a restaurant, there will probably be more ambient noise so need to be silent. If anything else, a bit of water gurgling may sound nice in a Thai restaurant. Sort of like a waterfall sound.
zeroinverse
Guest
What is makeup of the planned tank inhabitants. If lots of fish, then what is primary filtration? Skimmer? If so, how much water turnover do you need?
If fish only, as long as nitrate is reduce eventually, maybe a 2X water turnover is ok.
I assume most in-tank flow will just use circulation pumps.
If corals, then I can understand a higher turnover rate so that skinner can pull out more organics before they convert to nitrates and phosphates.
If you can get a return pipe "outside" of the overflow drain area (like go outside around back of top of tank, then you can use all three holes for drain.
Two 3/4" for emergency drains, and the 1.5" for siphon drain.
If fish only, as long as nitrate is reduce eventually, maybe a 2X water turnover is ok.
I assume most in-tank flow will just use circulation pumps.
If corals, then I can understand a higher turnover rate so that skinner can pull out more organics before they convert to nitrates and phosphates.
If you can get a return pipe "outside" of the overflow drain area (like go outside around back of top of tank, then you can use all three holes for drain.
Two 3/4" for emergency drains, and the 1.5" for siphon drain.
Coral reefer
Past President
I would use 1.5" as emergency an 3/4" as siphon w valve if going that route
zeroinverse
Guest
I would have too, but two 3/4" wth gate valves each set to tune a siphon.
Problem is gate valves are not cheap, I think.
So that is the cheapo in me talking.
OnTheReef
Guest
I'd highly recommend that you check out the BeanAnimal overflow. It's the quietest and safest design out there.
http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx
zeroinverse
Guest
Humu already said he uses beananimal for his own tank.
My guess is with the 3 predrilled holes, he doesn't want to put a 4th. Only other way is to use an "over the tank" return.
Which in a Thai restaurant, may be asking for kids to play with and cause water to spill on floor (potentially).
zeroinverse
Guest
What do you mean by 90 degree elbow on the 3/4" emergency?
It's on the inlet to the emergency drain or the outlet?
Reason to have it "open vertically" at the INLET is so you actually hear it "gurgling" and can try to fix the MAIN DRAIN. Usually it means it's clogged.
It's on the inlet to the emergency drain or the outlet?
Reason to have it "open vertically" at the INLET is so you actually hear it "gurgling" and can try to fix the MAIN DRAIN. Usually it means it's clogged.