Jestersix

Red Carpet

If it is a LFS that I know, I can talk to them about how long they have had, what they have been feeding it, and just general health/behavior of the anemone and not worry (as much). I prefer to only do business with someone that I know either from personal experience or is recommended by someone I trust.

The LFS that I have dealt with have worked with me if something has gone wrong, either allowing a special order to sit at their store with no risk because it didn't look perfect or when there was a major delay on ordering a tank, giving me a discount on future business.

I agree wholeheartedly that if you have anything above 50% positive marks on most online bitching sites means that you are quite possibly the best business on earth, or you pay Yelp. The difference between LA's Diver Den and nearly every other business in the hobby is significant, and this is not from experience but from nearly every single person I have spoken to in the hobby (I trust tuberider!).

If something dies because of bad handling preventable with simple care from the beginning (such as LADD's), why would I want to purchase from a company allowing them to profit and further the bad practice? Not every collector or wholesaler invests the same amount of care in harvesting and shipping of fish, so if I have a choice of picking a supplier that has a known record for going above and beyond to take care of their animals vs. an unknown, I know who I am more comfortable with.
 
h20player101 said:
If it is a LFS that I know, I can talk to them about how long they have had, what they have been feeding it, and just general health/behavior of the anemone and not worry (as much). I prefer to only do business with someone that I know either from personal experience or is recommended by someone I trust.
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Understandable. I'm confused though, did you ask for recommendations of the Sacto store, or where you just looking at what was posted in the MARS forum in regards to the store? I guess that is what I should have said in the start, sorry.

h20player101 said:
The LFS that I have dealt with have worked with me if something has gone wrong, either allowing a special order to sit at their store with no risk because it didn't look perfect or when there was a major delay on ordering a tank, giving me a discount on future business.
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I kinda feel we've been talking colored carpet anemones here? If you lost the anemome after you took possession, would they (LFS) credit you?

h20player101 said:
I agree wholeheartedly that if you have anything above 50% positive marks on most online bitching sites means that you are quite possibly the best business on earth, or you pay Yelp. The difference between LA's Diver Den and nearly every other business in the hobby is significant, and this is not from experience but from nearly every single person I have spoken to in the hobby (I trust tuberider!).
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I think nearly is taking that one a bit far given all the stores I get to see yearly. Online they are IMO/IME the best game in town though!!! Some have been doing the same thing but for a much longer time, like AquaTouch in Arizona. FWIW I was not saying anything negative about LA DD, Kevin Kohen runs a tight ship for Race and Marty and in the very thread I am pretty sure I recommended them :D

h20player101 said:
If something dies because of bad handling preventable with simple care from the beginning (such as LADD's), why would I want to purchase from a company allowing them to profit and further the bad practice? Not every collector or wholesaler invests the same amount of care in harvesting and shipping of fish, so if I have a choice of picking a supplier that has a known record for going above and beyond to take care of their animals vs. an unknown, I know who I am more comfortable with.
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Not sure I follow you here. In respect to the topic at hand, colored carpets, the damage is normally not anything related to "poor shipping practices" but rather them being poor shippers in general. Almost all big ticket items in this trade are handled with more care then bread and butter items, colored carpets get far more respect then a GBTA. LA most likely got the anem from QA, same place many of our local shops buy from. Given the fact many collectors will farm their catch out to many exporters and many wholesalers share shipments with each other, chances are it probably came from the same place in the start, especially with colored carpets (they tend to come in waves).

FWIW I'm just curious and I don't find what you did wrong in any way, well, other then I don't like the collection of carpet anems given how many perish in the CoC. I just like getting others take on things and you've been very informative, thanks :)
 
What I should have done is asked more on the forums about the store. I wasn't proactive, just looked at what was said on the forums and blogs.

I wouldn't expect a full credit in the event that something died, but look for example on how Robert & Cerissa handle the issue with the mounting glue. Person has purchased a healthy specimen, taken possession and ran into issues of their own making, yet Robert & Cerissa wanted to make sure that they have a happy customer base and so were willing to go beyond simply saying "you bought it, you broke it, your loss."

You certainly have been to 1000's more stores then I have, and so have the experience. I am a late comer to the game, only been in about 3 years and deal only with Bay Area stores, so it is a limited comparison.

Wouldn't you say though that LA's ability to hold inventory in their facility longer would help carpets? I am not familiar with the importers handling, but it seems a few months sitting in the same water, under the same lights certainly couldn't hurt. Since DFS has a huge amount of capital to play with, they don't need to rely on turnover (priced accordingly!) to simply stay in business.
 
h20player101 said:
Wouldn't you say though that LA's ability to hold inventory in their facility longer would help carpets? I am not familiar with the importers handling, but it seems a few months sitting in the same water, under the same lights certainly couldn't hurt. Since DFS has a huge amount of capital to play with, they don't need to rely on turnover (priced accordingly!) to simply stay in business.
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In some cases, yah, but in others not so much. In many cases I have seen they tend to fall apart a couple months down the line.

DFS is a business and needs to turn over product, trust me. Kevin has put policies in place that don't allow DD to turn and burn but make no mistake, all non DD LA stuff is sold straight out of a wholesalers tank. They don't run a public aquarium, it has to show a profit or Race and Marty wouldn't be doing it.

Just curious, what store are we talking about in Sacto? I know a few that I like and trust that I have seen dragged through the mud on the forums.
 
I can't tell from all my search history, but I think it was Tropical Coral Farms. Not positive though, but it looks like they had one at about the time I was looking.

When I have special ordered something, I try and pick it up from the store when it arrives, still in bag (the joys of self-employment). Do you think this is necessary? I thought that making one less acclimation to a different water/light setup would help, especially with bad shipping items. Why do you think carpets might fall apart later? Is it a bacteria we are missing? Particular water parameter that are different then the standard reef location we replicate in our tanks? Feeding? Lighting? Or just all of the above? Any advice in particular? I have a greenish one that nearly died when I had moved, but over the past few months have brought his color back and he is getting bigger. Any pitfalls? More Mg, St, or Iodine? Any help on care would be appreciated.
 
tuberider said:
GreshamH said:
it has to show a profit or Race and Marty wouldn't be doing it.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't MOs a loss leader for LA?
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Nearly positive your wrong :) I bet its their lowest producer though.
 
h20player101 said:
I can't tell from all my search history, but I think it was Tropical Coral Farms. Not positive though, but it looks like they had one at about the time I was looking.

When I have special ordered something, I try and pick it up from the store when it arrives, still in bag (the joys of self-employment). Do you think this is necessary? I thought that making one less acclimation to a different water/light setup would help, especially with bad shipping items. Why do you think carpets might fall apart later? Is it a bacteria we are missing? Particular water parameter that are different then the standard reef location we replicate in our tanks? Feeding? Lighting? Or just all of the above? Any advice in particular? I have a greenish one that nearly died when I had moved, but over the past few months have brought his color back and he is getting bigger. Any pitfalls? More Mg, St, or Iodine? Any help on care would be appreciated.
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I prefer to allow the store to acclimate it which allows me the chance to see how it behaves. The stores I deal with allow me to see it and decline it if it's not in good shape. From store to home really doesn't require much if any real acclimation contrary to popular belief, at least IMO/IME.

Tons of reasons why they may fall apart, ammonia in shipping, poor collection, too hot in shipping, bacterial infection and probably a bunch of unknowns.

The thing is "carpet" anemones are several species each behaving in its own way and with varying success in tanks. Any idea what species your green is?
 
h20player101 said:
When I have special ordered something, I try and pick it up from the store when it arrives, still in bag (the joys of self-employment). Do you think this is necessary? I thought that making one less acclimation to a different water/light setup would help, especially with bad shipping items.
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Its a crap shoot. If the nem arrives in great shape, skipping the store is fabu. If bad shape you end up with the loss.

Why do you think carpets might fall apart later? Is it a bacteria we are missing? Particular water parameter that are different then the standard reef location we replicate in our tanks? Feeding? Lighting? Or just all of the above?
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We don't know. There are reports that treating for 24 hours with doxy can help.

Any advice in particular?
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Start with a healthy nem. S. haddoni are better shippers than other species, so might be less of a worry.

I have a greenish one that nearly died when I had moved, but over the past few months have brought his color back and he is getting bigger. Any pitfalls? More Mg, St, or Iodine? Any help on care would be appreciated.
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What species?
 
Thales said:
GreshamH said:
tuberider said:
GreshamH said:
it has to show a profit or Race and Marty wouldn't be doing it.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't MOs a loss leader for LA?
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Nearly positive your wrong :) I bet its their lowest producer though.
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They used to say it was, but I don't think it's the case anymore.
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A lot can happen in two years (last time Race was talking about this IIRC). IIRC it also had to do with shipping which really isn't "MO being a lost leader" but rather the division (LA) loosing money on shipping.
 
Yep Gresh - he used to say it didn't make money and he didn't care if it ever did. I gotta believe that LA is making money now though. :D
 
Was reading this the other day:

CARPET ANEMONES: BIG, BEAUTIFUL, AND DEADLY CARPET BUYER'S GUIDE
http://www.reefhobbyistmagazine.com/downloads/pdf/version14.pdf
 
Gomer said:
GreshamH said:
MO = Marine Ornamental (marine livestock meant for display)
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Sorry to detract from the convo, but is there certain marine livestock that isn't considered MO?
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Yup, marine livestock harvested for food or other commercial uses.
 
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