Cali Kid Corals

Reefer stand help needed (was Reefer gap)

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richiev

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Need an opinion. The rear corner of my new Reefer 500 stand has a gap between the top and the outer edge. It's only this one spot.

PXL_20221031_032221699~2.jpg

It's probably 1-3mm.

Is this concerning?

I've tried to fix it by ensuring I tightened all the screws in, and the cams, but it didn't change anything. Red Sea so far hasn't really given me guidance outside of trying to retighten things in ways I already did.

Visually I don't care, because it's the corner by the wall. I just want to ensure structural integrity isn't compromised.

The red sea stand in this corner has 4 bolts held in place with those rotating cams, and 2 plastic dowels:

PXL_20221102_233209655.jpg


My gut is this doesn't really matter, since it's not really changing the force directions, but...
 
My gut is that it doesn't matter either, hard to tell which side is "up" based on that picture you show, but I'd guess that piece is mostly to prevent twisting and/or racking of the stand. Having the pieces physically touch would do absolutely nothing for strength of it's intended job as the fasteners and the strength of the material it's in is what matters. I mean if it makes you feel better a bead of constructive adhesive would make it stronger, although probably won't be removing that piece ever again :D
 
Ok, I need extra advice from anyone who has built a Reefer stand before.

I ended up taking the tank off, and trying to fix the stand. I noticed that entire corner area had gaps. I'm not sure if they developed while I had the tank sitting on it, or were there previously, but I decided to restart.

The main issue I'm seeing is these cam lock nuts/heads appear to be all bent. The direct cause of that is certainly how hard I was turning them to lock them.

I've set up a ton of flat pack furniture, and never had issues with these locks before. To get these a full 180 degree turn is requiring a ton of force. Now that I've taken it apart, I'm realizing that force is me actually bending the cam lock head, presumably because the bolt is contacting the head oddly. I just assumed it was supposed to be that hard to turn, because it's a big heavy tank.

The reason they heads seem to be having issues is that bolts are not protruding into the socket area enough. That presumably is caused by the plastic screw area that bolt goes into being recessed more than I'd think they should be.

I'm confused as to what's going on, and if somehow I caused this.

Anyone built a Reefer stand and have advice?

Some specific questions:
1. The bolts (M in the diagram) should be tightened until snug correct?
2. How hard should I be turning the cam locks (P)? Should I be turning until they're a full 180 degrees, or should I just be turning until they're snug? Effectively how many uga-ugas should I be putting into these, or if someone's into metric units and wants to say Newton-meters that works too.
3. Are gaps in the stand something I should worry about? I don't care cosmetically. They'll be hidden once the doors close.
4. Should the cam lock head covers (Q) fit into the holes? Mine generally aren't, likely because I'm bending them.
5. Anyone know where to get new cam lock heads?

I emailed red sea most of these questions as well, but I figured this group might have faster responses and hands on experience.

PXL_20221103_034323145.jpg
 
richiev said:
Ok, I need extra advice from anyone who has built a Reefer stand before.

I ended up taking the tank off, and trying to fix the stand. I noticed that entire corner area had gaps. I'm not sure if they developed while I had the tank sitting on it, or were there previously, but I decided to restart.

The main issue I'm seeing is these cam lock nuts/heads appear to be all bent. The direct cause of that is certainly how hard I was turning them to lock them.

I've set up a ton of flat pack furniture, and never had issues with these locks before. To get these a full 180 degree turn is requiring a ton of force. Now that I've taken it apart, I'm realizing that force is me actually bending the cam lock head, presumably because the bolt is contacting the head oddly. I just assumed it was supposed to be that hard to turn, because it's a big heavy tank.

The reason they heads seem to be having issues is that bolts are not protruding into the socket area enough. That presumably is caused by the plastic screw area that bolt goes into being recessed more than I'd think they should be.

I'm confused as to what's going on, and if somehow I caused this.

Anyone built a Reefer stand and have advice?

Some specific questions:
1. The bolts (M in the diagram) should be tightened until snug correct?
2. How hard should I be turning the cam locks (P)? Should I be turning until they're a full 180 degrees, or should I just be turning until they're snug? Effectively how many uga-ugas should I be putting into these, or if someone's into metric units and wants to say Newton-meters that works too.
3. Are gaps in the stand something I should worry about? I don't care cosmetically. They'll be hidden once the doors close.
4. Should the cam lock head covers (Q) fit into the holes? Mine generally aren't, likely because I'm bending them.
5. Anyone know where to get new cam lock heads?

I emailed red sea most of these questions as well, but I figured this group might have faster responses and hands on experience.
Click to expand...

1: Yes, finger tight plus 1/2 turn should be fine
2:Cam locks should turn until a hard(ish) stop, just trying to get that 90 deg locking mechanism going
3:Gaps look like they are caused by inexact lengths of boards. Not something I would worry about unless they are supposed to be taking load
4:I would guess so since they have the same quantity as cam locks. Maybe they are supposed to flex, be inserted, then unflex
5: Internet? Or Red Sea customer service.

Note that these are all best guesses from years of building similar things like Ikea furniture.
 
H2OPlayar said:
1: Yes, finger tight plus 1/2 turn should be fine
2:Cam locks should turn until a hard(ish) stop, just trying to get that 90 deg locking mechanism going
3:Gaps look like they are caused by inexact lengths of boards. Not something I would worry about unless they are supposed to be taking load
4:I would guess so since they have the same quantity as cam locks. Maybe they are supposed to flex, be inserted, then unflex
5: Internet? Or Red Sea customer service.

Note that these are all best guesses from years of building similar things like Ikea furniture.
Click to expand...
I think the failing on my part was assuming the cam locks were supposed to be turned a full 180°. That's what I've always done in the past, and I just assumed them being hard to turn was intentional and part of the "multiple thousands of pounds will be sitting on this" design.

In retrospect, turning further doesn't seem like it would strengthen the joint, because it's not like it changes anything. So it should be just tight enough that it would be secure and the cam lock can't turn and have the bolt get loose.

I do think the instructions should somewhere, at least online, clarify the amount of force to use, but whatcha gonna do.

I have contacted red sea and will see what they say, hopefully tomorrow. I've found cam locks on Amazon, but none seem to have the right dimensions so far, unless the diagrams or my calipers are wrong

Edit: I think this is the exact lock they're using https://en.lusterful.net/product/29.html

Lusterful LSF1511

15mm diameter, 11mm height. Center of the channel is about 6mm from the topmost edge.
 
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Did you take the whole thing apart already? If so, can you see if that one leg (attached to nothing else) will connect without a gap if it's just attached by itself? Attaching just this leg to the top will at least tell you if it's a matter of the other pieces causing the leg to not make contact. If it fits flush without the other parts, then it's some misalignment caused by the other parts. If it still has a gap, then it's the connectors.

V
 
Vincerama2 said:
Did you take the whole thing apart already? If so, can you see if that one leg (attached to nothing else) will connect without a gap if it's just attached by itself? Attaching just this leg to the top will at least tell you if it's a matter of the other pieces causing the leg to not make contact. If it fits flush without the other parts, then it's some misalignment caused by the other parts. If it still has a gap, then it's the connectors.

V
Click to expand...
Full stand already taken apart :). I'm now waiting on red sea to ship me some replacements (free thankfully, should arrive Sunday).

And for future reference, yes, the guidance is turn until snug, not a full 180°.
 
Stand is back together and fixed.

PXL_20221107_030056644.jpg


Now the embarrassing part which I feel obligated to share in case anyone in the future googles this stuff...

I think I'm lucky I looked over the stand, got suspicious, and took it back apart. The cam lock nuts were basically all bent. When I say bent I mean some were a bit misshapen, but many were badly bent, and some were very damaged. While some actually broke when I took it back apart, some might have actually been broken in the stand. Here's a collection of them. The locks are supposed to be straight across, and not bent.

PXL_20221107_030421814.jpg


Looking even closer, you can see ones where the metal was cracking. Also one that's actually broken.

PXL_20221107_030348385.jpg


I really did not realize the metal type, and never would've considered that could've been possible. However these things it turns out are just made of zinc or a zinc alloy, and are quite easy to bend.

Symptoms to look for:
  • Gaps, including areas that seemed to go tight and then not
  • Any ability to move the boards where attached. I pushed on every board after connecting to make sure every joint was solid. I don't think it was the first time
  • Any bulging of the cam head. If that happens, and you can't get the little rubber decorative cover into the hole over the cam lock, you almost certainly damaged the lock and need to swap it
  • Any that crack, but that's obvious
When putting these together, the bolts should just be screwed into the plastic until snug, and no more. You just want it held. You do not want the bolt any further in than that, both to avoid stripping the plastic threads and because the holes seem to be to shallow. When they bolt goes deep into the panels, the head doesn't stick out much and it's more difficult to grab with the head.

Similarly the cam locks should just be turned until tight. Not a full 180. Not "1 ugga-ugga" tight.

Red Sea was great and sent me replacements fast. All seems good.

Well,, almost all good. The drain pipes they sent as replacements arrived damaged in the exact same way as the originals. I contacted them again to ask what's up.
 
It's great that you took the precaution with the stand! Glad you got it figured out.

It's been 5+ years, but I think my plumbing might have had the same little "mark" on the threading (and I had no issues with it). I have all my plumbing sitting in the garage right now, so I'll take a look in the morning to see if I have something similar. I guess what I'm wondering if it's an innocuous blemish that they all come with.
 
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