got ethical husbandry?

Reminder to All: Acropora Eating Flatworms!

Nav said:
Also wanted to mention... I called Neptune about the AEFW and was clearly told that they DONT DIP anything that goes into their systems.
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Nav...who was it that told you I refused to dip? I would really like to know as this is a serious mis-understanding and represent a training issue to me. If you don't want to disclose the name publicly, please PM me.

As for the AEFW issue, this is nothing new. This is unfortunately, one of the drawbacks to coral trading among the hobby and will continued to be an unavoidable problem for most everyone. Practically, every single reef shops in the Bay Area has them. Most of them don't even know it! and it has been so for years. If you have a real reef shop that told you otherwise, you'll need to take your business else where as I have confirmed cases from almost all of them.

While this is by far not an excuse for me, I've tried my best to keep them under control but there's really so much my crew and I can do to avoid them and deal with them. It's like Herpes, once you get it...you get it. At some point, we just need to learn to live with them. Ask Rich Ross, even that dude have them and been living with them for years.

Don't want to keep beating on a dead horse but dipping and quarantining is now the best and only solution other than errr...don't do SPS at all. What's your flavor...Nudi? Aiptasia? Mojano? Red Bugs? Hydroids? Mollusk Eating Flatworm??? Get my point? There will always be some sort of pests in your system one way or another...sooner or later...that I can guaranty you. It's part of the progression of the hobby. What I've always told people when they asked me about this sort of stuff is that if I don't trust my system 100%, neither should you and that's why you should dip and quarantine everything from ANYBODY. This is the truth in my shop and it has always been this way.

As far as me refusing to dip, I think you may have gotten the message out of context. Yes, I have told my staff to forego dipping on certain shipments...but not all. I dip whenever possible. I get two to three shipments of corals a week and half of the times, they came in really really bad shape (much more so in the winter months) and will not be able to withstand the dipping regiment. In those cases, they go straight into ideal water but usually get dipped when they are ready to be transferred to stocking tanks. My staff usually don't do that as they are often inexperience in judging new arrival's health and that's why I dipped them myself whenever I can. Even so, it's never a guaranty kill-all solution.

I hope this helps clearing things up a bit.
 
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Practically, every single reef shops in the Bay Area has them.
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In support of this statement, I went and checked out California Reef Company in Fremont this weekend. Just as I was told by some other members on this forum, it was the nicest looking aquarium shop I've been to in the bay area so far. However, after getting some nice looking decent sized frags from them at a very reasonable cost, I got them home and noticed they have both AEFWs and red bugs on some of the frags. Since the frags are all from the same system, I'm guessing all the frags and colonies of SPS they have are infected. That said, I would definitely buy from them again because I liked their selection, quality, and price. Besides, I'm beginning to agree with Robert, who I quoted above.

I really appreciate you, Robert, one of our LFS sponsors, chiming in on this issue. Like it or not, it seems that your sentiments about coral pests in LFS systems are pretty accurate. We as the end users must either deal with these pests in our systems, just as the LFSs do, or quarantine and dip religiously to remove the pests before they enter our systems.

I'll have to make the effort to go check out Neptune Aquatics some time :)
 
gaberosenfield said:
In support of this statement, I went and checked out California Reef Company in Fremont this weekend. Just as I was told by some other members on this forum, it was the nicest looking aquarium shop I've been to in the bay area so far. However, after getting some nice looking decent sized frags from them at a very reasonable cost, I got them home and noticed they have both AEFWs and red bugs on some of the frags. Since the frags are all from the same system, I'm guessing all the frags and colonies of SPS they have are infected. That said, I would definitely buy from them again because I liked their selection, quality, and price. Besides, I'm beginning to agree with Robert, who I quoted above.

I really appreciate you, Robert, one of our LFS sponsors, chiming in on this issue. Like it or not, it seems that your sentiments about coral pests in LFS systems are pretty accurate. We as the end users must either deal with these pests in our systems, just as the LFSs do, or quarantine and dip religiously to remove the pests before they enter our systems.

I'll have to make the effort to go check out Neptune Aquatics some time :)
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It's easier to be honest about these things than to sell false hope...

Thank You, everyone...for your continued supports!
 
muhli said:
Sorry if im hijacking this tread, but I just wanted someone to help me identify these white things on my acro. Figured this thread might work best since its regarding AEFW.
These white things seems to be moving or something is attached to it and moving against the water currents, or the acro is losing tissue.
Just recently fed some Roti feast and this might have a hand in it?

The bottom part where its white has been there since day one so I dont think its a stn thats going on

There seems to be no bite marks nor do these "things" have some kind of pigmentation making them red or pink or however red bugs look

Thanks in advance!
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Not sure if anyone replied to this yet but those are red bugs. You can look at using veterinary Interceptor for those though the treatment will also kill shrimp/crabs. Plenty of info - Check it out.
 
Red bugs are white as well? I never had red bugs before so I'm too familiar with them. They were gone the next day though and I don't see them anywhere anymore in my tank.
 
iCon said:
Not sure if anyone replied to this yet but those are red bugs. You can look at using veterinary Interceptor for those though the treatment will also kill shrimp/crabs. Plenty of info - Check it out.
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If you can remove the coral, a quick 3-5 Bayer dip will kill them. But, you'll have to do this once a week for 3-4 consecutive weeks to rid them all. Messmate pipefish is also a really good natural way of getting rid of them. Eat them like candy.
 
muhli said:
Red bugs are white as well? I never had red bugs before so I'm too familiar with them. They were gone the next day though and I don't see them anywhere anymore in my tank.
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Red bugs have orange bodies with tiny red heads. They're extremely small, and the times I've had them in the past I've only noticed them after I took pictures of my coral with macro settings. I could stare at the coral all day and still not see them. A quick google found this picture which shows how tiny they are, and what they look like

Redbugs-on-acro.gif
 
sfsuphysics said:
BTW, here's a good thread that describes how to treat newly acquired corals (rather than rehashing what's already been done). Including the Bayer Insecticide formula that you could pick up at any home and garden store (Home Depot, Lowes, etc)
http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/general-sps-discussion/100496-bayer-insecticide-coral-dip.html
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We should keep this kind of information as a sticky thread/info since this dead horse has been beaten to a pulverized state in like the last 100 years...lol
 
muhli said:
Red bugs are white as well? I never had red bugs before so I'm too familiar with them. They were gone the next day though and I don't see them anywhere anymore in my tank.
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Those are definitely red bugs in your pictures. I got rid of my infestation with flatworm exit, and overcompensated on the water change and carbon suggestion in the instructions. Never had a problem, and never a reoccurring outbreak.
 
Many eons ago, while still in college, I used to manage a tropical fish store known for quality stock. The owner had a quarantine room for all the incoming fish. Depending on the species and source, QT averaged three weeks, with delicate varieties held longer. In a shipment of fancy guppies from Thailand, > 50% died during QT. Wild caught Cardinal Tetras originally had 80% mortality, but years of experience and QT refinements later, Cardinals had a 25% mortality rate with the added benefit of eating flake & pellets after leaving QT.

His retail fish prices in general were three times the cost of other stores, and five times the price of Petco's. However, if you had a cycled tank, an absolute beginner would be successful with a school of Cardinal Tetras bought from his store.

His profit margins on fish were small, but the owner believed in selling a good product to cultivate a return clientele... and he loved the hobby. His tropical fish store is still in operation today.

FYI, what profit there is to be made in a tropical fish store is not in livestock, but rather in dry goods, and it's difficult to compete with online vendors who have little overhead.

For me personally, I am extremely reluctant to buy livestock online. I need to see it in real life; however, with LFS's constantly going out of business it's a challenge. Not only that, but the social aspect of talking fish with other hobbyists face to face is an important factor in maintaining longevity in a fickle pursuit.

SO PLEASE SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FISH STORE OR LOOSE IT!
 
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