So AEFW... what are the symptoms.
- Thread starter sfsuphysics
- Start date
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
To be diplomatic rather than point fingers and cry foul, I would simply make a point of mentioning "I may have gotten <pest> from <person X> due to the fact he's the last person I got corals from..."
But as Gresham mentioned, many pests may already be in our tanks, it's just something is keeping them under control to the point where we don't notice them. Hell I thought one particular person I got a piece of digitata from was the reason I got monti-eating nudis (MEN?) but I realized it might not be from him simply because the frag I got was a top portion (ok not a guarantee), I did dip it (again not a guarantee), but someone mentioned a frag had MEN some time back, however I kind of dismissed it as possible cross contamination with other things that were being dipped by him, why? Because I didn't see any evidence of them in my tank, then one day WAMMO I noticed a little too much "tissue recession" and at night armed with a light and a syringe to suck out something I saw... confirmed what I thought, I had them.
Also now have an outbreak of planera, first thought, "god damn rodactis I picked up on my last pick and just tossed in my softy tank... which BAR member was that... (it was a bar donation)..." (also I forgot that I saw them prior to the frag swap
) then I noticed them in my sunlit-frag tank which is strange because it's not connected to my softie tank at all... and wondered how the hell did it get there... everything was providone dipped before going in there... then I saw it.. a lone mushroom, one that I must have missed when packing up frags, the bunch that I just tossed in the frag tank after fragging to await the morning... So yeah anyone who snatched those red/green fuzzy mushrooms from me, if you didn't dip, there's a chance you'll see some red-planera going through your tank (easy enough to deal with with flat-worm exit though).
The whole point is we may have pests in our tank that are being controlled then something happens, a predator gets removed (how many people have given away 6-lines recently?), or you overfeed one too many times to allow enough food to get a huge population spike so they do become viewable, or one finally manages to find the "mother load" of coral food on a particular rock because of the close proximity of many types of it's food (i.e. montipora, or acropora, etc). So moral of the long winded story? Mention the person's name, but do so in a diplomatic way, why? because someone might have the pests as well for a long time and think nothing is wrong with it then pass them on. Some might not even put frags into a frag swap if they thought there was an infestation of something, hell I contemplated not putting in any softies, but then I saw how easily they died with a providone dip, and decided that it's up to people to assume everything they have is potentially infected.
I still am hoping I don't have AEFW in my tank, and that the tissue recession is from some other cause, but I'm still going to be on the look out, who knows if I lose a ton of stuff, I might just give up the hobby, or go a different route, like softies/lps only with some not-so-sps friendly fish or something where I don't have to spend a bank on lighting.
But as Gresham mentioned, many pests may already be in our tanks, it's just something is keeping them under control to the point where we don't notice them. Hell I thought one particular person I got a piece of digitata from was the reason I got monti-eating nudis (MEN?) but I realized it might not be from him simply because the frag I got was a top portion (ok not a guarantee), I did dip it (again not a guarantee), but someone mentioned a frag had MEN some time back, however I kind of dismissed it as possible cross contamination with other things that were being dipped by him, why? Because I didn't see any evidence of them in my tank, then one day WAMMO I noticed a little too much "tissue recession" and at night armed with a light and a syringe to suck out something I saw... confirmed what I thought, I had them.
Also now have an outbreak of planera, first thought, "god damn rodactis I picked up on my last pick and just tossed in my softy tank... which BAR member was that... (it was a bar donation)..." (also I forgot that I saw them prior to the frag swap
) then I noticed them in my sunlit-frag tank which is strange because it's not connected to my softie tank at all... and wondered how the hell did it get there... everything was providone dipped before going in there... then I saw it.. a lone mushroom, one that I must have missed when packing up frags, the bunch that I just tossed in the frag tank after fragging to await the morning... So yeah anyone who snatched those red/green fuzzy mushrooms from me, if you didn't dip, there's a chance you'll see some red-planera going through your tank (easy enough to deal with with flat-worm exit though). The whole point is we may have pests in our tank that are being controlled then something happens, a predator gets removed (how many people have given away 6-lines recently?), or you overfeed one too many times to allow enough food to get a huge population spike so they do become viewable, or one finally manages to find the "mother load" of coral food on a particular rock because of the close proximity of many types of it's food (i.e. montipora, or acropora, etc). So moral of the long winded story? Mention the person's name, but do so in a diplomatic way, why? because someone might have the pests as well for a long time and think nothing is wrong with it then pass them on. Some might not even put frags into a frag swap if they thought there was an infestation of something, hell I contemplated not putting in any softies, but then I saw how easily they died with a providone dip, and decided that it's up to people to assume everything they have is potentially infected.
I still am hoping I don't have AEFW in my tank, and that the tissue recession is from some other cause, but I'm still going to be on the look out, who knows if I lose a ton of stuff, I might just give up the hobby, or go a different route, like softies/lps only with some not-so-sps friendly fish or something where I don't have to spend a bank on lighting.
Raddogz
Guest
I sincerely hope you don't have the darn pests Mike. I know it can be absolutely heartbreaking, but I think even if they are infected there are many ways you can treat now compared to a year or two ago, where everyone was tearing their hair out.
Good luck. I feel your pain at the uncertainty.
If it's any consolation I don't mind fraggin stuff off if the worst case were to happen and you lose the lot.
Good luck. I feel your pain at the uncertainty.
If it's any consolation I don't mind fraggin stuff off if the worst case were to happen and you lose the lot.
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
Well tonight I peaked into my tank with the flashlight, stared at the white (now greenish thanks to the lovely friend we call algae) spot on my "brown is a color damnit, tricolor acro" and didn't see anything that could resemble a flatworm, I know they're hard to spot but of all the pictures I've seen, if you know what to look for they aren't that hard. So I'm thinking hmm maybe it was those asterina sp. starfish, but why is it just now happening? On my green slimer i noticed a very large crab... one of my emeralds I think merged with other emeralds and now I have this crab that size of a silver dollar in my tank, he was at the base, didn't see him picking at anything, I did have this tempation to grab a skewer and stab him Tom Hank's "Cast Away" style... but I resisted.. although yanking it out and tossing it in a sump someplace is definite on my mind.
Another thing that has me thinking flow issues, is that all the damage on those particular ones happens to be on the same side of the coral near the base, so maybe there's some funky flow/lack of flow going on there, perhaps one waterchange/dose too much got a super concentrated calc/alk/freshwater splash on them...
Eitherway, I'm not worrying too much, getting a little annoyed mostly because I don't have the time to do anything to remedy the situation. Last time I got creative did some reaquascaping my blue millepora colony (both now) completely faded out and RTN'd away.
Another thing that has me thinking flow issues, is that all the damage on those particular ones happens to be on the same side of the coral near the base, so maybe there's some funky flow/lack of flow going on there, perhaps one waterchange/dose too much got a super concentrated calc/alk/freshwater splash on them...
Eitherway, I'm not worrying too much, getting a little annoyed mostly because I don't have the time to do anything to remedy the situation. Last time I got creative did some reaquascaping my blue millepora colony (both now) completely faded out and RTN'd away.
Mr. Ugly
Past President
[quote author=Elite link=topic=2346.msg23849#msg23849 date=1188516485]
But a lot of people bought stuff from him and nobody said anything.. He is a well known guy. Everyone here know him.
Why do I think I got the AEFW from him?
90% the stuff I got from him infected and none of other stuff had it.
And yup, it's my fault for not having a QT.
[/quote]
Most likely those frags did have AEFW. I got some from the same person, and about 90% didn't make it. The rest I eventually threw away.
Those were freebies/donations, and from how they looked, I sort of assumed that they were from the "known to be challenged" coral tank, and didn't think to say anything to him.
I had them in a quarantine tank, and wrote it off as a failed rescue attempt.
But a lot of people bought stuff from him and nobody said anything.. He is a well known guy. Everyone here know him.
Why do I think I got the AEFW from him?
90% the stuff I got from him infected and none of other stuff had it.
And yup, it's my fault for not having a QT.
[/quote]
Most likely those frags did have AEFW. I got some from the same person, and about 90% didn't make it. The rest I eventually threw away.
Those were freebies/donations, and from how they looked, I sort of assumed that they were from the "known to be challenged" coral tank, and didn't think to say anything to him.
I had them in a quarantine tank, and wrote it off as a failed rescue attempt.
bookfish
Guest
[quote author=Thales link=topic=2346.msg23862#msg23862 date=1188576379]
If any of you ever get a pest from my, you damn well better say something about it.
[/quote]
Which is another point, if you see a pest on a piece you got from someone and THEY didn't know they had it, you'd consider it you're responsibility to say something right? I don't think pests are an indication of bad reefkeeping, I think they're an inevitable part of intensive culture of anything, plant or animal. We are all fairly new to this intensive, domestic coral farming thing and we're still learning how to deal with our pests and parasites. Not everyone can or will have quarantine systems and we all like to share our corals with each other.
Please treat every coral as if it's infected. Dip everything. Or, be like me and only grow relatively pest-free LPS and softies.
I'll also say that if anyone (Norm!) ever gets anything from me (zoo nudis) I'd want to hear about it right away!
Luckily, both Norm and I knew the piece in question was probably infected (total lack of pe!) and he dipped it before tanking it. There's nothing wrong with my reefkeeping and I knowingly passed on an infected piece to a knowing recipient.
Pests don't have to stop the trading/ selling, we just need to be very straight up about it all.
If any of you ever get a pest from my, you damn well better say something about it.
[/quote]
Which is another point, if you see a pest on a piece you got from someone and THEY didn't know they had it, you'd consider it you're responsibility to say something right? I don't think pests are an indication of bad reefkeeping, I think they're an inevitable part of intensive culture of anything, plant or animal. We are all fairly new to this intensive, domestic coral farming thing and we're still learning how to deal with our pests and parasites. Not everyone can or will have quarantine systems and we all like to share our corals with each other.
Please treat every coral as if it's infected. Dip everything. Or, be like me and only grow relatively pest-free LPS and softies.
I'll also say that if anyone (Norm!) ever gets anything from me (zoo nudis) I'd want to hear about it right away!
Luckily, both Norm and I knew the piece in question was probably infected (total lack of pe!) and he dipped it before tanking it. There's nothing wrong with my reefkeeping and I knowingly passed on an infected piece to a knowing recipient.
Pests don't have to stop the trading/ selling, we just need to be very straight up about it all.
Thales
Past President
[quote author=Elite link=topic=2346.msg23863#msg23863 date=1188579735]
Mike,
Best way to find out is take the acro out and let it dry. It's much easier to see them when the acro is dry. The only thing bad part is the acro will die :-[ ..
[/quote]
I disagree. If you do the povidone dip its very easy to see if the coral has AEFW on it - they drop of or are easily blow off with a baster and the coral doesn't die.
However, you do need to be able to remove the coral, and AEFW and MEN are what led me to my coral mounting regime discussed in my article in RHM. Unremovable colonies are not a good idea imo.
Mike,
Best way to find out is take the acro out and let it dry. It's much easier to see them when the acro is dry. The only thing bad part is the acro will die :-[ ..
[/quote]
I disagree. If you do the povidone dip its very easy to see if the coral has AEFW on it - they drop of or are easily blow off with a baster and the coral doesn't die.
However, you do need to be able to remove the coral, and AEFW and MEN are what led me to my coral mounting regime discussed in my article in RHM. Unremovable colonies are not a good idea imo.
Elite
Guest
[quote author=Thales link=topic=2346.msg23867#msg23867 date=1188583278]
[quote author=Elite link=topic=2346.msg23863#msg23863 date=1188579735]
Mike,
Best way to find out is take the acro out and let it dry. It's much easier to see them when the acro is dry. The only thing bad part is the acro will die :-[ ..
[/quote]
I disagree. If you do the povidone dip its very easy to see if the coral has AEFW on it - they drop of or are easily blow off with a baster and the coral doesn't die.
However, you do need to be able to remove the coral, and AEFW and MEN are what led me to my coral mounting regime discussed in my article in RHM. Unremovable colonies are not a good idea imo.
[/quote]
I dipped the heck out of it and couldn't see FW. It could be my "good" eyes too ..
Unremovable frags/colonies is suck but good sometimes. A damn $15 fish killed my $50 frag (your table acro frag) because he picked it up and threw it somewhere in the back of the tank > . I couldn't find it until I teared down my tank last Monday.
[quote author=Elite link=topic=2346.msg23863#msg23863 date=1188579735]
Mike,
Best way to find out is take the acro out and let it dry. It's much easier to see them when the acro is dry. The only thing bad part is the acro will die :-[ ..
[/quote]
I disagree. If you do the povidone dip its very easy to see if the coral has AEFW on it - they drop of or are easily blow off with a baster and the coral doesn't die.
However, you do need to be able to remove the coral, and AEFW and MEN are what led me to my coral mounting regime discussed in my article in RHM. Unremovable colonies are not a good idea imo.
[/quote]
I dipped the heck out of it and couldn't see FW. It could be my "good" eyes too
..Unremovable frags/colonies is suck but good sometimes. A damn $15 fish killed my $50 frag (your table acro frag) because he picked it up and threw it somewhere in the back of the tank >
. I couldn't find it until I teared down my tank last Monday.
Thales
Past President
[quote author=Elite link=topic=2346.msg23873#msg23873 date=1188587108]
[quote author=Thales link=topic=2346.msg23867#msg23867 date=1188583278]
[quote author=Elite link=topic=2346.msg23863#msg23863 date=1188579735]
Mike,
Best way to find out is take the acro out and let it dry. It's much easier to see them when the acro is dry. The only thing bad part is the acro will die :-[ ..
[/quote]
I disagree. If you do the povidone dip its very easy to see if the coral has AEFW on it - they drop of or are easily blow off with a baster and the coral doesn't die.
However, you do need to be able to remove the coral, and AEFW and MEN are what led me to my coral mounting regime discussed in my article in RHM. Unremovable colonies are not a good idea imo.
[/quote]
I dipped the heck out of it and couldn't see FW. It could be my "good" eyes too ..[/quote]
How concentrated was the dip? How long was the dip? Did you use a baster to blow it off? Did you dry out the colony and see AEFW after it was dry?
How did you affix the frag to your existing rockwork? IMO, you need to be able to affix the colony so that you can remove it when you want to, not by accident.
Sad!
[quote author=Thales link=topic=2346.msg23867#msg23867 date=1188583278]
[quote author=Elite link=topic=2346.msg23863#msg23863 date=1188579735]
Mike,
Best way to find out is take the acro out and let it dry. It's much easier to see them when the acro is dry. The only thing bad part is the acro will die :-[ ..
[/quote]
I disagree. If you do the povidone dip its very easy to see if the coral has AEFW on it - they drop of or are easily blow off with a baster and the coral doesn't die.
However, you do need to be able to remove the coral, and AEFW and MEN are what led me to my coral mounting regime discussed in my article in RHM. Unremovable colonies are not a good idea imo.
[/quote]
I dipped the heck out of it and couldn't see FW. It could be my "good" eyes too
..[/quote]How concentrated was the dip? How long was the dip? Did you use a baster to blow it off? Did you dry out the colony and see AEFW after it was dry?
Unremovable frags/colonies is suck but good sometimes. A damn $15 fish killed my $50 frag (your table acro frag) because he picked it up and threw it somewhere in the back of the tank >
How did you affix the frag to your existing rockwork? IMO, you need to be able to affix the colony so that you can remove it when you want to, not by accident.
I couldn't find it until I teared down my tank last Monday.
Sad!
Mr. Ugly
Past President
[quote author=bookfish link=topic=2346.msg23865#msg23865 date=1188581754]Please treat every coral as if it's infected. Dip everything. Or, be like me and only grow relatively pest-free LPS and softies.
I'll also say that if anyone (Norm!) ever gets anything from me (zoo nudis) I'd want to hear about it right away!
Luckily, both Norm and I knew the piece in question was probably infected (total lack of pe!) and he dipped it before tanking it. There's nothing wrong with my reefkeeping and I knowingly passed on an infected piece to a knowing recipient.
[/quote]
Yep, Jim and I were joking about that zoa rock. I'd seen worse, but it definately looked like a candidate for dipping.
I did my usual Povidone salt water dip(and coral baster treatment). But after seeing several fat juicy nudis come loose, and considering the size and shape of the rock and its crevices... I ran the whole thing under tap water a while to ensure a better kill of any remaining pests.
Even after that, I was too paranoid and decided to frag the whole layer of zoas off the rock and clean them up some more.
They went into a reusable coffee filter basket and the whole thing went into the quarantine. They'll stay there a few weeks in case I missed any nudi eggs.
Even in the quarantine, I'm using the coffee filter to keep them a bit isolated from other stuff.
I'll also say that if anyone (Norm!) ever gets anything from me (zoo nudis) I'd want to hear about it right away!
Luckily, both Norm and I knew the piece in question was probably infected (total lack of pe!) and he dipped it before tanking it. There's nothing wrong with my reefkeeping and I knowingly passed on an infected piece to a knowing recipient.
[/quote]
Yep, Jim and I were joking about that zoa rock. I'd seen worse, but it definately looked like a candidate for dipping.
I did my usual Povidone salt water dip(and coral baster treatment). But after seeing several fat juicy nudis come loose, and considering the size and shape of the rock and its crevices... I ran the whole thing under tap water a while to ensure a better kill of any remaining pests.
Even after that, I was too paranoid and decided to frag the whole layer of zoas off the rock and clean them up some more.
They went into a reusable coffee filter basket and the whole thing went into the quarantine. They'll stay there a few weeks in case I missed any nudi eggs.
Even in the quarantine, I'm using the coffee filter to keep them a bit isolated from other stuff.
G
GreshamH
Guest
Was that the hitchhiker on my coral? IF so, thanks for taking the nudis as well, I didn't see them
LordHelmet
Supporting Member
ok, I'll chime in since i think i have AEFW what is this Povidone salt water dip i keep reading about?
what is this Povidone salt water dip i keep reading about?sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
Well the white spots are getting larger which is worrying me. Still not convinced of AEFW, but I am a tad worried. Now the frags that looked suspect I did a betadine dip, squirted them off after 15 minutes, and saw nothing (safe some copepods) come off. The larger colonies however, about the size of a whole hand (at least in height) might be more problematic, all the damage is on the encrusting base, and I'm very tempted to snap it off at the base, and dip/inspect and place outside in my grow out tank just to see what happens to the base. Option two is to yank out the whole rock, hit that sumbitch with a dremel and cut off all the dying flesh and surrounding rock it's encrusted onto, and hope that fixes it. (as you can tell I really don't want to resort to this)... and thanks to another family member of my g/f who needed a place to crast (WTF does this look like a flop house?) I lost most of yet another weekend.
LordHelmet
Supporting Member
rich not yet. probably friday.
is this what to look for. notice the white marks.
is this what to look for. notice the white marks.